The Real Reason Richer People Marry • Hacker News Board

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#11

Post by apsec112 » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 4:57 AM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #6

Different explanation, and some of this ain't pretty. (Apologies if this is male-centric, but it's probably quite similar for women.) Richer people (or, at least, socioeconomically comfortable people) establish masculinity and effectiveness by building successful families. If you're happy at work and your kids are doing great and you're intellectually engaged, one woman is enough for most men. That obscene sex drive…

"If you want to go deeper into the theory behind this, humans actually have two sex drives, one geared toward r-selection and the other toward K-selection."

Human sexuality is very complex, and has had evolutionary pressure on it from many different directions... but that's not how the science works. I'll let Slate Star Codex explain (http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/20/ozys-anti-heartiste-faq...):

"Is it true that some humans are r-selected, which means they’re promiscuous and want to have lots of children, and some humans are k-selected, which means they invest in a few children?

No.

For one thing, r/k selection theory was shown to be a vast oversimplification of life-history evolution forty years ago. For another thing, it applies on a species level, not on an individual level. Humans as a species are absurdly k-selected. How many species can you think of that have young that are totally helpless for their first decade of life? r/k selection theory would argue that we wouldn’t have casual sex, because humans are not remotely r-selected on any conceivable level! Clearly, this is not the case, which ought to make one wonder how applicable this is to human beings anyway."

Here is a paper going into the details of the science: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~taylor/z652/Reznicketal.pdf

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#12

Post by yummyfajitas » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 4:58 AM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #6

Different explanation, and some of this ain't pretty. (Apologies if this is male-centric, but it's probably quite similar for women.) Richer people (or, at least, socioeconomically comfortable people) establish masculinity and effectiveness by building successful families. If you're happy at work and your kids are doing great and you're intellectually engaged, one woman is enough for most men. That obscene sex drive…

We just behave differently because we're under a different and mostly less severe set of stressors.

I don't buy the explanation that "stressors" are somehow the cause. Here in India marriage is sky high, yet stressors of any sort are vastly higher.

Further, when discussing economic incentives, it doesn't make sense to discuss lack of money. Marriage is cheaper than being single due to economies of scale (a lot like having a roommate) and having a more stable income source (assuming 2 earners, it's unlikely both will simultaneously lose their job).

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#13

Post by throwaway90446 » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:07 AM UTC

ars wrote: post #2

This sentence makes no sense: "Unlike their ancestors in the late 1800s, many of today’s working-class young adults have responded to the difficulty of marrying by living with a partner and having children outside of marriage." What difficulty in marrying? I could understand a difficulty in living together and having kids. But marrying? That's just a piece of paper. It makes little difference for people who already h…

You're probably not up to speed with the cultural expectations of the ceremony itself in the modern U.S.

In terms of social signaling, an elaborate, extravagant ceremony, preceded by presentation of an outrageously expensive conflict diamond, is REQUIRED. Even if not in real reality, in the "reality" of social mores and expectations.

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#14

Post by xercex » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:12 AM UTC

rifung wrote: post #10

xercex wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple: 1) Richer people are mostly smarter. Smarter people see through the toxic culture and seek to marry. 2) Wealthy people are often so because they do things that help build wealth and success, Ie. marriage. Smart people descended from smart married people are more likely to follow their parents warnings about the destructiveness of the toxic culture which attacks marriage.

What toxic culture are we talking about exactly? I don't recall anything in the article saying anything about anyone "attacking" marriage.

The development arresting, pro-promiscuous culture - that is blatantly promoted almost everywhere.

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#15

Post by ams6110 » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:25 AM UTC

jemfinch wrote: post #3

I read that entire article and I still don't understand the real reason richer people marry.

It's an opinion piece, not a news article. His main argument is the last sentence: What’s happened is that the kinds of jobs that would get them off the couch [and motivated to marry] have become scarce in our unequal economy.

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#16

Post by javert » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:34 AM UTC

xercex wrote: post #9

jemfinch wrote: post #3

I read that entire article and I still don't understand the real reason richer people marry.

Simple: 1) Richer people are mostly smarter. Smarter people see through the toxic culture and seek to marry. 2) Wealthy people are often so because they do things that help build wealth and success, Ie. marriage. Smart people descended from smart married people are more likely to follow their parents warnings about the destructiveness of the toxic culture which attacks marriage.

Why do you claim that getting married is smarter and helps build wealth and success?

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#17

Post by cageface » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 5:46 AM UTC

xercex wrote: post #9

jemfinch wrote: post #3

I read that entire article and I still don't understand the real reason richer people marry.

Simple: 1) Richer people are mostly smarter. Smarter people see through the toxic culture and seek to marry. 2) Wealthy people are often so because they do things that help build wealth and success, Ie. marriage. Smart people descended from smart married people are more likely to follow their parents warnings about the destructiveness of the toxic culture which attacks marriage.

Did you even read the article?

But some digging into historical census records shows that social class differences in marriage have been tied to the extent of income inequality among white Americans for at least 130 years. They also suggest that commentators who insist that the marriage gap is wholly a matter of values are almost surely wrong.

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#18

Post by Hytosys » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 6:03 AM UTC

xercex wrote: post #9

jemfinch wrote: post #3

I read that entire article and I still don't understand the real reason richer people marry.

Simple: 1) Richer people are mostly smarter. Smarter people see through the toxic culture and seek to marry. 2) Wealthy people are often so because they do things that help build wealth and success, Ie. marriage. Smart people descended from smart married people are more likely to follow their parents warnings about the destructiveness of the toxic culture which attacks marriage.

This is dangerously brash and unsupported conjecture unless you've got relevant studies readily available.

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#19

Post by serve_yay » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 6:28 AM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #6

Different explanation, and some of this ain't pretty. (Apologies if this is male-centric, but it's probably quite similar for women.) Richer people (or, at least, socioeconomically comfortable people) establish masculinity and effectiveness by building successful families. If you're happy at work and your kids are doing great and you're intellectually engaged, one woman is enough for most men. That obscene sex drive…

Boy oh boy.

Re: The Real Reason Richer People Marry

#20

Post by xercex » Mon, Dec 08, 2014, 6:30 AM UTC

cageface wrote: post #17

xercex wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple: 1) Richer people are mostly smarter. Smarter people see through the toxic culture and seek to marry. 2) Wealthy people are often so because they do things that help build wealth and success, Ie. marriage. Smart people descended from smart married people are more likely to follow their parents warnings about the destructiveness of the toxic culture which attacks marriage.

Did you even read the article? But some digging into historical census records shows that social class differences in marriage have been tied to the extent of income inequality among white Americans for at least 130 years. They also suggest that commentators who insist that the marriage gap is wholly a matter of values are almost surely wrong.

The article is purposely misleading. At best its entire premise is concluded on one small report that only looks at one source of data. Even the article admits: "To be sure, the parallel movements of economic inequality and marriage inequality do not prove that the former causes the latter."

The truth is that there was some correlation always - that makes sense with what I said, which is smarter people are going to do smarter things like marry and make more money - but the extreme difference is today, not 130 years ago. This extreme and growing difference is due to the toxic culture being promoted.