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What happened to Argentina?

economix.blogs.nytimes.com

11–20 of 63 posts

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#11
I think the author was looking at too small a window into Argentina. It still is a pretty decent place to live and it will probably capitalize on Brazil's new growth spurt. Look at the most populous area, Buenos Aires, which has 1/3 of the population and an HDI of 0.923. It's a first world score.

I think Peron was quite positive, and the author forgets to note that before him Argentina was controlled by English companies who took the best part of the profits from the beef industry.

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#12
post #7

This is another economist trying to beat the capitalistic drum. Apart from Peron's protectionist policies (which some call a drive toward self-sustenance), one shouldn't forget contributing factors like the 1948 exclusion of Argentina exports from the Marshall Plan by the Truman administration. Peron might have been mistaken on many counts, but so many things are ignored behind the veil of apparently protectionist po…

Extremely myopic, indeed. Peron was an authoritarian and a demagogue, but he improved most social indicators of the country. Sure, GDP diminished but that was part of the cost to make Argentina an industrialized nation. Also the infrastructure of the country improved significantly. IMHO, it's quite hard to understand a right-leaning socialist government from the point of view of a US citizen. There's no reference.

If education was truly that bad, I have a hard time seeing those improvements as social ones. They seem more like a side effect of strong authoritarian policy.

I don't buy the article's explanations thus far; though it appears to be one of a series and I look forward to reading more.

But I also am not swayed but your assertion that progress in a socialist country is too alien for we crass capitalists to gauge.

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#13
In my opinion Argentina is cursed more for its lack of direction than a deficit in education. During the 20th century (and 21th) its has been a common practice to destroy or undo the previous administration efforts.

Almost every group that had governed Argentina, gained power, rebuilt everything (laws, institutions, education...) until it got replaced or defeated.

A century of this, has left the country walking in circles, incapable of taking advantage of the oportunities that had appeared, and that might had improved its situation.

Nevertheless I don't lose my hope in my beloved country.

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#14
post #8

This is another economist trying to beat the capitalistic drum. Apart from Peron's protectionist policies (which some call a drive toward self-sustenance), one shouldn't forget contributing factors like the 1948 exclusion of Argentina exports from the Marshall Plan by the Truman administration. Peron might have been mistaken on many counts, but so many things are ignored behind the veil of apparently protectionist po…

i agree. there's a lot of issues in the history of argentina that are brushed by in an attempt to make this a simple economic policy debate. for example, they were quite politically unstable. there was a coup in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. the ruling military government died in the 80s after a brief war. a prosperous economy is difficult to foster without a stable governmental structure, regardless of what that…

But might the political instability also be a symptom of the educational level?

(Anyone want to plot education-in-1900 vs. coups-in-20th-century?)

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#15

This is another economist trying to beat the capitalistic drum. Apart from Peron's protectionist policies (which some call a drive toward self-sustenance), one shouldn't forget contributing factors like the 1948 exclusion of Argentina exports from the Marshall Plan by the Truman administration. Peron might have been mistaken on many counts, but so many things are ignored behind the veil of apparently protectionist po…

What surprised me about the article was that I didn't see much 'capitalist drum-beating'. His argument is that the performance of Argentina versus the US can be entirely explained by education levels. Schools are typically provided by the government, and the idea of universal education was initially regarded as a radical one, often associated with early socialists.

I'm not sure if I agree with the hypothesis, but I'd rather hear a specific counter-argument. Your condemnation seems more suited to a rebuttal of the typical 'Argentina is poor because it's socialist' idea.

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apart from Peron's protectionist policies (which some call a drive toward self-sustenance)" Trade protection and autarky have long been defended by words like "self-sustenance," and the like, but such policies have never turned out well: just ask India and China before they modernized and liberalized their economies. "Peron might have been mistaken on many counts, but so many things are ignored behind the veil of ap…

"...just ask India and China before they modernized and liberalized their economies." Well, modernization and liberalization of economies have increased the economic divide in India. It's not that liberal economic policies are wrong, just that their implementations are always skewed by greedy corporations. A government's responsibility is not only to cater to cash sinks but also the people they govern, which especial…

Note that "increased the economic divide" sounds bad, but there's no way from that statement alone to know whether people are better off or worse off, on the whole. If the "economic divide" was broadened merely by making some people better off faster than others, as is usually the case in a freer market, then there's no problem. It's only when people actually get poorer in terms of what they can do and have that "increasing the economic divide" is a problem, but that's much less common than nearly everyone getting poorer, which would have the effect of narrowing the gap by at least some measures.

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#17

This is another economist trying to beat the capitalistic drum. Apart from Peron's protectionist policies (which some call a drive toward self-sustenance), one shouldn't forget contributing factors like the 1948 exclusion of Argentina exports from the Marshall Plan by the Truman administration. Peron might have been mistaken on many counts, but so many things are ignored behind the veil of apparently protectionist po…

What surprised me about the article was that I didn't see much 'capitalist drum-beating'. His argument is that the performance of Argentina versus the US can be entirely explained by education levels. Schools are typically provided by the government, and the idea of universal education was initially regarded as a radical one, often associated with early socialists. I'm not sure if I agree with the hypothesis, but I'd…

In fact, he does mention Peron's protectionism being a root cause (along with depression and wars) for Argentina's financial woes today. He states that protectionism, regulation, large state enterprises (which are anti-capitalistic themes) have never been 'particularly good for growth'.

I feel he does start of with the capitalistic premise. Only later is education hypothesized as a major culprit.

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#18
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apart from Peron's protectionist policies (which some call a drive toward self-sustenance)" Trade protection and autarky have long been defended by words like "self-sustenance," and the like, but such policies have never turned out well: just ask India and China before they modernized and liberalized their economies. "Peron might have been mistaken on many counts, but so many things are ignored behind the veil of ap…

"...just ask India and China before they modernized and liberalized their economies." Well, modernization and liberalization of economies have increased the economic divide in India. It's not that liberal economic policies are wrong, just that their implementations are always skewed by greedy corporations. A government's responsibility is not only to cater to cash sinks but also the people they govern, which especial…

What is the evidence that things are worse off for anybody in India today as compared to 1965?

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#19
post #14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree. there's a lot of issues in the history of argentina that are brushed by in an attempt to make this a simple economic policy debate. for example, they were quite politically unstable. there was a coup in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. the ruling military government died in the 80s after a brief war. a prosperous economy is difficult to foster without a stable governmental structure, regardless of what that…

But might the political instability also be a symptom of the educational level? (Anyone want to plot education-in-1900 vs. coups-in-20th-century?)

could be. i'm sure there's a lot of chicken/egg questions that could be asked with respect to a lot of issues in the country.

Re: What happened to Argentina?

#20
A point on Human Capital: From what I learned, developed countries (and companies) depends much more on Structural Capital and not Human Capital in long run.

Human Capital is seen as a risky asset due to its volatility. From a intellectual capital management perspective, my guess is that Argentina has not been successful into converting its Human Capital into Structural Capital.

Education is one of the tools of such conversion. With my limited knowledge, policy and society design are the high level effective tools for the job.

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