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NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

nasa.gov

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Re: NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

#11

Post by 3rd3 »

mturmon wrote: post #6
pjungwir wrote: post #3

It's amazing how much they look like electron orbitals. . . . Sometimes its seems like the reason we see nature reuse the same patterns is not from any physical mechanism but simply because math only has so many "shapes." I am perpetually in awe at this mysterious order to our universe. Also: if these belts block high-energy electrons, can they teach us to build a force field that does the same? And can that solve th…

You may already know this, but in your observation about "math having only so many shapes" has been explored in some depth. There is a wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature but I first learned about it from the book, "Patterns in Nature", by Peter S. Stevens ( http://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Nature-Peter-S-Stevens/dp/031... ), which was recommended to me by a noted poet.

There is a similar, but less mathematical and pretty old book called Artforms of Nature by Ernst Haeckel (1904) [1]. It’s in the public domain.

[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kunstformen_der_Natur

Re: NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

#12

Post by tjradcliffe »

jedp wrote: post #2

The title is a bit hyperbolic. The article shows how the Van Allen belts constitute a "nearly impenetrable" barrier preventing "ultra-fast electrons" from approaching the earth.

In fairness, the article is almost as bad as the title. It isn't even clear at first that they are taking about belt electrons rather than cosmic-ray electrons, which have many orders of magnitude higher energy.

The gist of the article seems to be, "The sharpness of the outer edge of the inner Van Allen belt is due to scattering of high-energy belt electrons off cold plasma surrounding the Earth" but it's really difficult to tell.

Re: NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

#13

Post by Balgair »

JetSpiegel wrote: post #10
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #9

I find that the more we know about this planet that keeps us safe, a large moon to keep asteroids away and tectonics hot, a mass just enough to keep an atmosphere around us and a spinning iron core to provide "impenetrable barriers", the more I learn of this the less I think Fermi found a paradox and just that it's hard for life to stay alive in this universe.

Life finds a way.

It's the day before turkey day, you don't deserve the negative links, even if it was a cheap comment, as you made me think of that ma's laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9D6w1GzGY

Also, is laughter a conserved 'shape' in nature, and what is the shape space of nature anyways, is it restricted to the 4 dimensions we inhabit in a way?

Re: NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

#15

Post by kilroy123 »

This certainly seems like something we need to duplicate for spaceships, to more safely travel to mars and beyond.

I don't know much about the dangers of these particles on the human body. I'm going to assume any environment different to the one on earth poses great risk.

Re: NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

#16

Post by marcosdumay »

pjungwir wrote: post #3

It's amazing how much they look like electron orbitals. . . . Sometimes its seems like the reason we see nature reuse the same patterns is not from any physical mechanism but simply because math only has so many "shapes." I am perpetually in awe at this mysterious order to our universe. Also: if these belts block high-energy electrons, can they teach us to build a force field that does the same? And can that solve th…

It's a very simple shape. Things that rotate tend to have toroidal features. And the details are all different.

We know how to build a force field that does the same, it's a magnet. The problem is that it does not protect against neutron radiation.

Re: NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

#17

Post by blueprint »

pjungwir wrote: post #3

It's amazing how much they look like electron orbitals. . . . Sometimes its seems like the reason we see nature reuse the same patterns is not from any physical mechanism but simply because math only has so many "shapes." I am perpetually in awe at this mysterious order to our universe. Also: if these belts block high-energy electrons, can they teach us to build a force field that does the same? And can that solve th…

I wonder if I'll be attacked for saying this. Here goes. We always find these kinds of shapes because they are the shapes that appear through fluid mechanics. Space is a fluid, too. In a fluid, we have vortices (in the form of whirlpools, tornados, etc) because they allow material and energy to be moved much more efficiently than any of the other structures we don't tend to see in stable systems.

Re: NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

#18

Post by graycat »

> Impenetrable Barrier in Spac

Gee, then, how'd various spacecraft get through it?

Ah, now that I read the details, it's a "nearly impenetrable barrier" to electrons. Okay, now not so amazing! No need to call Captain Kirk!

Such titles are called "click bait" or some such, right?

Re: NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

#19

Post by twic »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #5
pjungwir wrote: post #3

It's amazing how much they look like electron orbitals. . . . Sometimes its seems like the reason we see nature reuse the same patterns is not from any physical mechanism but simply because math only has so many "shapes." I am perpetually in awe at this mysterious order to our universe. Also: if these belts block high-energy electrons, can they teach us to build a force field that does the same? And can that solve th…

> build a planet-sized spacecraft // We have one of those already, just need to work on the propulsion and life-support systems.

And we're back to the stories of Liu Cixin again:

http://www.pornokitsch.com/2012/07/underground-reading-the-w...

Re: NASA's Van Allen Probes Spot an Impenetrable Barrier in Space

#20

Post by ajcarpy2005 »

pjungwir wrote: post #3

It's amazing how much they look like electron orbitals. . . . Sometimes its seems like the reason we see nature reuse the same patterns is not from any physical mechanism but simply because math only has so many "shapes." I am perpetually in awe at this mysterious order to our universe. Also: if these belts block high-energy electrons, can they teach us to build a force field that does the same? And can that solve th…

Well there is actually a very electrical and magnetic basis for many of the features and configurations we see in space and in star systems. There is a whole memmetic category heading known as Electric Universe, which although unfortunately contributed to by many crackpots, a very interesting and rational framework for understanding on at least a very basic level the 'why' and 'how' of what we observe in space. (why and how specific patterns or shapes are observed)

Here's a fantastic first part of a video series (long but very educational and interesting; not solid science but not devoid of facts either): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EPlyiW-xGI

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