Fixing Our Broken Immigration System Through Executive Action – Key Facts

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Re: Fixing Our Broken Immigration System Through Executive Action – Key Facts

#11

Post by SubuSS » Fri, Nov 21, 2014, 11:24 AM UTC

netcan wrote: post #8

I realize that a government or legislature deals in a world of compromises posing as moral imperative, but on immigration specifically I find it hard to stomach. I think immigration systems are inherently broken. Free movement is a basic freedom. The right to take employment is a basic right. All compromises that make these rights and freedoms subservient to an immigration policy are inherently broken by the standard…

In theory, a very valid point.

In practice though, humanity is very varied and is of a thousand inherently contradicting beliefs. Unless we find a way to ensure that local interests ( that the locals have worked so hard to build and conserve ) are protected from herding behavior, local communities/values don't get destroyed just because they got slashdotted etc. this is not possible at all. Not to mention what over-population and sudden influx of a huge # of people can do to an area.

This is going to sound like a military hiring rhetoric but, there are many many people out there who would love to tell you what to do/how to live/what to eat etc. and hurt you if you don't follow them. Societies normalize around local 'wackiness' / 'norm' so to speak. Allowing free movement would mean losing those cultural identities per se and I don't think we are ready for that yet. Right now, People who want peace are the ones who should be willing to fight most for it.

FWIW - I am an immigrant. I have seen the other side of the world so to speak and can totally appreciate why people want to move to USA.

Re: Fixing Our Broken Immigration System Through Executive Action – Key Facts

#12

Post by netcan » Fri, Nov 21, 2014, 12:38 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #10

netcan wrote: post #8

I realize that a government or legislature deals in a world of compromises posing as moral imperative, but on immigration specifically I find it hard to stomach. I think immigration systems are inherently broken. Free movement is a basic freedom. The right to take employment is a basic right. All compromises that make these rights and freedoms subservient to an immigration policy are inherently broken by the standard…

I am not against free movement between countries, however I do not feel anyone is entitled to move into another country and expecting a hand out. Immigrants used to move to other countries fully expecting to bust their ass integrating into society, the goal was to make their children's lives better. The issue here is that this change will damage the job prospects of the underemployed and poor that are already here an…

Just the fact that most people in most places immediate reaction this kind of idea is "handouts" is proof of a problem. We don't have that kind of reaction to people "expecting handouts" who aren't immigrants. Immigrants as a whole are usually members of lower middle classes. Not huge tax contributors, but not a welfare dependent group either.

The biggest welfare dependent groups within most countries are entrenched subcultures that have built up the habit over 2 or more generations.

There is no reason to assume on the whole that immigrants are an economic drain. The huge gap between people's instinctive reaction and reality, is IMO xenophobia.

Anyway, I think economics might be part of the practicalities, but shouldn't be the heart of the discussion. This is a fundamental moral issue, not an economic one.

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