Live data from Hacker News

Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

nytimes.com

11–20 of 28 posts

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#11
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a halt? Surely people will keep writing regardless and somebody will want to read it.

Its not the writing that's an issue. It's the publishing. Taking someone's writing and turning that into a book requires work and funding. When price controls and discount bans are enforced on book publishers and book stores, publishers are much less willing to take risks on unknown authors. Sure, a new JK Rowling or Danielle Steele book will always find someone willing to publish them, but would a young aspiring aut…

In a perfect world, publishers would do what they did in the past, i.e. contribute to giving feedback on the contents and the title, proof-reading and copy-editing, making the cover, taking some financial risk by printing the book, distributing it to a pre-existing network of bookstores, sending it to book reviewers prior to releasing it, and promoting it.

In today's world, they kind of still do that, but spend so little time, energy and money on it that it's impossible for them to even remotely justify the huge cut they take with a straight face. Innate talent left aside, whether an author wannabe's book sells well or not entirely depends on his willingness to promote it by showing up at events and bookstores.

As such, you're just as well off -- and more often than not, better off -- relying on friends for feedback and copy-editing, self-publishing an ebook, and reaching out to your audience directly through mostly online channels.

(I worked in a brick and mortar bookstore, and have been watching the situation degrade over the years ever since. Methinks that, much like the press at large, publishers only have themselves to blame.)

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#12
post #2

" At the same time, price discounts on books are limited to 5 percent and can’t be offered in conjunction with free shipping." They've recently just tried this law in Israel. The result? The printing of New books has screeched to a halt. When you can't offer discounts on new books, the publishers are only willing to take the chance on famous well established authors. The law is especially absurd, because even if you'…

There's a book entitled "Forty Centuries of Wage and Price Controls" by Robert L. Schuettinger that ought to be required reading for anyone who thinks that either price controls are a new idea or that this time they'll work.

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not the writing that's an issue. It's the publishing. Taking someone's writing and turning that into a book requires work and funding. When price controls and discount bans are enforced on book publishers and book stores, publishers are much less willing to take risks on unknown authors. Sure, a new JK Rowling or Danielle Steele book will always find someone willing to publish them, but would a young aspiring aut…

In a perfect world, publishers would do what they did in the past, i.e. contribute to giving feedback on the contents and the title, proof-reading and copy-editing, making the cover, taking some financial risk by printing the book, distributing it to a pre-existing network of bookstores, sending it to book reviewers prior to releasing it, and promoting it. In today's world, they kind of still do that, but spend so li…

Join the winning team, amazon and the likes. Or read free e-books.

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not the writing that's an issue. It's the publishing. Taking someone's writing and turning that into a book requires work and funding. When price controls and discount bans are enforced on book publishers and book stores, publishers are much less willing to take risks on unknown authors. Sure, a new JK Rowling or Danielle Steele book will always find someone willing to publish them, but would a young aspiring aut…

In a perfect world, publishers would do what they did in the past, i.e. contribute to giving feedback on the contents and the title, proof-reading and copy-editing, making the cover, taking some financial risk by printing the book, distributing it to a pre-existing network of bookstores, sending it to book reviewers prior to releasing it, and promoting it. In today's world, they kind of still do that, but spend so li…

> In a perfect world, publishers would do what they did in the past

I can't help but be skeptical that book publishing was perfect a few years ago!

(And hey, book publishing itself was a very disruptive industry - one could even argue that it precipitated the industrial revolution.)

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#15
"Books have no privileged position in the American system of law and commerce. We, the workers of the book business — writers, agents, editors, designers, publicists, booksellers and others — often bemoan this fact. Books, it seems to us, are different. [...] Surely our industry deserves special treatment."

Talk to any businessman. He'll say he believes in the free market, but his business is special and deserves special protection.

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#16
To give some more information about the French perspective here:

- No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essential good.'", I have been unable to find any French source about this, and I am entirely unaware of such a declaration. I would be interested if anyone could point me to more information about this.

- There is a fixed price law on books, which to my knowledge has nothing to do with them being considered "essential". The way it works is that the book publisher sets the final sale price of the book that will have to be applied everywhere (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loi_relative_au_prix_du_livre)... a maximal rebate of 5% is permitted, which in practice is applied everywhere (except for online sales, see below). This is not unique to France and exists in several countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement#Sco...). My understanding of the point of this measure is that it reduces competition between booksellers, allowing smaller booksellers to survive, and allowing them to offer rarer books than just blockbusters.

- There is a cultural attachment to smaller bookshops, and a dislike of large foreign players (Amazon) even compared to large French players (Fnac, Gibert-Joseph, etc.). The smaller bookshops claim that Amazon's free shipping poses a great threat to their existence. Free shipping was challenged by the French Booksellers Association, ultimately unsuccessfully (http://www.maitre-eolas.fr/post/2008/05/15/954-le-prix-du-li...). Recently, however, a law was passed to achieve the same results, with online booksellers being forbidden to offer free shipping (hence Amazon.fr charges 0.01 EUR shipping for books) and being forbidden to offer the 5% discount. (http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTE... article 1). Of course, one could also argue that online bookselling makes books more easily available to the end consumer (and faster, say, than asking a library to order your books for you); but the problem is that the role of booksellers, to select interesting books and guide you in your choice, is lost.

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#17
post #2

" At the same time, price discounts on books are limited to 5 percent and can’t be offered in conjunction with free shipping." They've recently just tried this law in Israel. The result? The printing of New books has screeched to a halt. When you can't offer discounts on new books, the publishers are only willing to take the chance on famous well established authors. The law is especially absurd, because even if you'…

This seems to be more a lesson in the difficulty of bottling a solution that works in one country and reusing it elsewhere.

Because in France and Germany, the exact opposite happens: the profits of bestsellers are being used to cross-subsidize new books and new authors. This is in fact one of the rationales behind both countries having price-fixing laws: namely, to preserve the profit margin for bestsellers to make such cross-subsidies possible.

You can argue whether that is fair (I know there are plenty of French and German readers who'd rather have cheaper bestsellers instead of books by new authors that they may never read), but both countries have a healthy book publishing industry.

So, while this may not have worked in Israel, in France and Germany plenty of books are being published, bought, and read. In fact, Germany publishes more books per capita and year than the US, even though German publishers can't easily sell to the much bigger international English language market.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_published_per_country_per...

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#18
post #16

To give some more information about the French perspective here: - No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essential good.'", I have been unable to find any French source about this, and I am entirely unaware of such a declaration. I would be interested if anyone could point me to more information about this. - There is a fixed price law on books, which to my knowledge has…

> No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essential good.'"

It was part of the rationale behind the introduction of the Loi Lang (the "loi relative au prix du livre" you refer to above) in 1981. More importantly, this was how the French government managed to defend the law before the ECJ.

See: http://www.librairiesatlantiques.com/index.php/les-grands-do...

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#19
post #16

To give some more information about the French perspective here: - No source is given for the claim that "The French government has declared books an 'essential good.'", I have been unable to find any French source about this, and I am entirely unaware of such a declaration. I would be interested if anyone could point me to more information about this. - There is a fixed price law on books, which to my knowledge has…

the problem is that the role of booksellers, to select interesting books and guide you in your choice, is lost.

Are booksellers in France really prepared to do that kind of guidance? To me that sounds like a romantic but unrealistic view, since it requires them to be both very well read and good judges of character. I've met people like that, but they're usually not interested in burning their life savings and losing their salaries to spend their days selling copies of Twilight.

Re: Should the United States Declare Books an ‘Essential Good’?

#20
post #2

" At the same time, price discounts on books are limited to 5 percent and can’t be offered in conjunction with free shipping." They've recently just tried this law in Israel. The result? The printing of New books has screeched to a halt. When you can't offer discounts on new books, the publishers are only willing to take the chance on famous well established authors. The law is especially absurd, because even if you'…

This seems to be more a lesson in the difficulty of bottling a solution that works in one country and reusing it elsewhere. Because in France and Germany, the exact opposite happens: the profits of bestsellers are being used to cross-subsidize new books and new authors. This is in fact one of the rationales behind both countries having price-fixing laws: namely, to preserve the profit margin for bestsellers to make s…

> even though German publishers can't easily sell to the much bigger international English language market.

Yeah, we Germans unfortunately seem to need to get everything translated or dubbed - games, tv shows and books :/

Post reply on HN