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Startup depression

startupdepression.com

11–20 of 26 posts

Re: Startup depression

#11

I'm curious - why are there constantly posts about depression on HN? Is there something about the programmer/startup lifestyle thats more accepting of depressed people?

I searched and I found no hard evidence for that. There are professions more susceptible to that, but that's usually emergency workers or people in low-wage jobs.

I think it's more a backlash because it was often a topic not spoken about _and_ it has a lot of fear potential for people working with their brains mostly. Some high-profile suicides (aaronsw and others) have probably raised the interest as well.

Also, in my experience, the IT crowd is far more mobile than many other professions. I run multiple meetups and do get the feeling that they are important personal contact points for many. The tech scene as your first personal safety net. So advertising such things into this space directly makes a lot of sense.

Re: Startup depression

#12

I'm curious - why are there constantly posts about depression on HN? Is there something about the programmer/startup lifestyle thats more accepting of depressed people?

Here's a great talk by Greg Baugues in which he discusses his own mental illness (bipolar type II and ADHD) and notes that often there is a fine line between a symptom of depression/mental illness and a trait of a successful developer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFIa-Mc2KSk

Re: Startup depression

#13

I'm curious - why are there constantly posts about depression on HN? Is there something about the programmer/startup lifestyle thats more accepting of depressed people?

Mental health problems are very common. There is some stigma around mental ill-health. These tie into cognitive bias to make us think that mental ill-health is more common in developers than it is in the general population.

Learning about mental health is important for people running a business. They need to look after their mental wellbeing. They also need to avoid discriminating against employees who have a mental illness.

http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/mental-health-statistics-fa...

Stigma around mental ill-health makes it harder for people to get work; to stay in work; to seek help for their mental health problems (both informal help from friends, colleagues, and family; and formal help from talking-therapists or doctors) and also from seeking help for other illness. For example: a person who self harms on their arm may avoid doctor appointments where blood is taken or blood pressure is taken because that person does not want to reveal their self harm. (This also applies to women who self harm on their thighs avoiding gyno appointments.)

Ignoring all the human stuff this has costs to business and to society: about 70 million days are lost to UK industry because of mental ill-health. Billions of pounds (£) are lost to mental ill health.

Some simple measures could reduce that a lot. Building a culture where people can talk about their mental health is important. Allowing people to access therapies while staying working is important.

http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/your-organisation/support-w...

Re: Startup depression

#15
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw

Re: Startup depression

#16
post #6

I have multiple issues with this. First of all, depression through stresses and clinical depressions are very different and the introductory paragraph is extremely shallow, brushing all over this. Many mental issues can lead to a comorbide depression. Secondly, being depressed and being suicidal are related, the first often comes before the second, but not the same. By putting suicide hotlines front and center, the i…

The problem is that people who create startups tend to be highly analytical, logical, rational, intelligent in many facets with the perspective that their startup is their whole world and the whole world falls apart if their startup falls apart.

They are not the kind that can be helped by mental health care professionals in a traditional sense. Given the objective outcome, a mental health care professional can either reshape your world view (which I don't desire, because it's a ridiculous vocabulary I don't care to study again) or we can argue back and forth on theories about the human psyche, philosophize about various shared characteristics, and hope that somehow, abstractly, beneath this communication, lays something useful for the startup, code, math, logic, and so on.

The startup, the knowledge, the extending beyond the boundary of humanity TODAY is the goal. If you are completely alone in your life, then a health care professional can tell you objectively whether you are showering daily enough or not. They can not help you do research or build something new. Otherwise, I like the idea of having other people who have been through similar things to talk to.

It may even be possible that the person who created this is probably looking for a way to deal with their depression. People here are looking for perfectly unique solutions to perfectly unique problems. That's a difficult kind of depression to treat, if not impossible, theoretically, and I would say it runs a high risk of increasing the depression, unless the therapist happens to be one of these types themselves.

Re: Startup depression

#17

As someone who is dealing with a similar issue right now, I actually felt inclined to create a throwaway account just to comment on this. It's easy to find all kinds of talk about depression online, but that talk is less helpful when (in my case) the cause of the depression is at least in part due to difficulties in terms of sustaining normal friendships with other people in real life. And, I might also add, having n…

As a nerd, I also had problems finding "normal" friends. Not anymore. How I solved this:

- Enroll in a soccer team

- Take tango dancing classes

From there, it just went naturally. Of course, your situation might be different, but indeed staying alone at home doesn't help much.

Re: Startup depression

#18
This is a very useful compilation of resources. At 7 Cups of Tea, we are in the initial stages of figuring out how to better support the startup community. Being a YC startup, we very well understand the challenges founders face in a high pressure environment. If you are interested in working with us on this, then please send an email to info@7cupsoftea.com and we'll be in touch!

Re: Startup depression

#19
post #6

I have multiple issues with this. First of all, depression through stresses and clinical depressions are very different and the introductory paragraph is extremely shallow, brushing all over this. Many mental issues can lead to a comorbide depression. Secondly, being depressed and being suicidal are related, the first often comes before the second, but not the same. By putting suicide hotlines front and center, the i…

I'd have to agree, this strikes me as confusing situational depression with clinical depression.

When I was at my worst with my depression, by all objective measures my life was going just great - good girlfriend, lots of money, stable and interesting work. When I started receiving treatment, my life was by the same measures in much worse shape - had just gotten fired from a job for non-performance (due to a total inability to concentrate, as well as the lack of motivation that usually goes with depression), was broke as broke can be, was having a lot of relationship problems and so on. With my neurotransmitters tweaked, I felt better while dealing with very difficult circumstances than I ever did with untreated clinical depression and an otherwise-easy life situation.

I am not trying to dismiss the emotional turmoil that people no doubt experience in stressful and uncertain circumstances like starting a business, but I think it's important to understand the difference between that emotional state and the sort of irrational utter despair that people suffering from mental illness feel. I think the tools needed to address each problem are likely to differ significantly - no amount of therapy or reading r/GetMotivated (bizarrely linked in the article above) would change the fact that I was experiencing the effects of what was most likely a physical ailment.

Re: Startup depression

#20
post #6

I have multiple issues with this. First of all, depression through stresses and clinical depressions are very different and the introductory paragraph is extremely shallow, brushing all over this. Many mental issues can lead to a comorbide depression. Secondly, being depressed and being suicidal are related, the first often comes before the second, but not the same. By putting suicide hotlines front and center, the i…

I'd have to agree, this strikes me as confusing situational depression with clinical depression. When I was at my worst with my depression, by all objective measures my life was going just great - good girlfriend, lots of money, stable and interesting work. When I started receiving treatment, my life was by the same measures in much worse shape - had just gotten fired from a job for non-performance (due to a total in…

Thanks for writing this. I agree, bad feelings and anxiety are not necessarily "bad" if they are coming from an external source, meaningful source. Finding the line is hard, especially as those suffering from an illness quickly find sources if they are asked for.
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