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New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

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Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#11

Post by seren »

juretriglav wrote: post #2

I guess what's new here is the capacitive micro-machined ultrasound transducers (CMUT), ultrasound emitters directly on a semi-conductor wafer. Though I would like to see what we can do with this technology without limitations of mobile/portable. In terms of portable ultrasound, there are a few existing solutions on the market: This looks pretty portable (connected to an iPhone too): http://www.mobisante.com/ GE's po…

The difference with GE Vscan seems to be the 3D reconstruction capabilities. However I am not sure if the 3D is really needed. I always understood the 3D ultrasound reconstruction as a gimmick (at least in obstetrics) to show parent the head of their future baby.

Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#12

Post by fit2rule »

avighnay wrote: post #7

On the darker side, a dangerous social impact that this device would have is an increase female foeticide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion Though there is a lot being done against this social evil, it is still very prevalent.

I'm quite relieved to see someone is thinking of this use case and bringing it up in the discussion - a classic example of technology having both a positive angle and a negative one. I can't think of a way to solve this dilemma though .. seems like a slippery slope for us to be approaching.

Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#13

Post by hayksaakian »

ig1 wrote: post #10
adventured wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few questions. Why would a cheaper technology lead to an increase in abortions? Don't they just kill the fetus anyway upon realization of the sex if it's undesirable? Wouldn't it ultimately be safer for the mother, to perform a very early term abortion if that's what she wants, rather than waiting? If a mother wants to abort at 60 days pregnant (assuming the new tech enables earlier sex identification), why shouldn…

Because in countries where this is a problem it's common to have extreme restrictions on use of ultrasound machines. For example requiring two doctors to be present to use it and banning gender identification uses. If this device is cheap/small enough that illegal clinics could have it, it would make gender identification much more widely available then it is now. Selective abortion can be dangerous population-wise b…

On a micro level I sympathize with freedom of choice.

On a macro level, population skew is certainly a problem.

Tough call.

Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#14

Post by rglullis »

hayksaakian wrote: post #13
ig1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in countries where this is a problem it's common to have extreme restrictions on use of ultrasound machines. For example requiring two doctors to be present to use it and banning gender identification uses. If this device is cheap/small enough that illegal clinics could have it, it would make gender identification much more widely available then it is now. Selective abortion can be dangerous population-wise b…

On a micro level I sympathize with freedom of choice. On a macro level, population skew is certainly a problem. Tough call.

Not to start a flamewar, but it really isn't a tough call at all. It's just that you got trapped in this debate-framing message that abortions are about freedom.

You know another problem with legalized abortions? Women that sell them in exchange of suing for child support. [0]

[0]: https://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2014/10/30/who-knows-abo...

Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#15

Post by Otik »

jepper wrote: post #8
ck2 wrote: post #4

Hope they destroy the industry. 10 minutes of ultrasound to diagnose a serious illness can cost several hundred dollars in the USA Maybe in a decade it can even be built into smartphones like a tricorder. This device already looks like it can plug into a smartphone http://www.mobisante.com/products/product-overview/

An you can feed a software consultant on 1 dollar a day. The price in medicine is mostly not the hardware but the required expertise to analyse the data. Ultrasound imaging is not easy. The american health system is very expensive though, a ultrasound is around 50 euro's here. That said, 3D ultrasound can have tons of other applications not just in diagnostic medicine. Real time surgcial feedback in soft tissue, yes…

This is the sort of tool that will find loads of uses in different areas if it's cheap, portable and flexible.

I can imagine engineers using it to examine materials, plant scientists looking at plant growth or builders using it to find out where different things are located in walls.

Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#16

Post by bugsbunnyak »

adventured wrote: post #9
avighnay wrote: post #7

On the darker side, a dangerous social impact that this device would have is an increase female foeticide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion Though there is a lot being done against this social evil, it is still very prevalent.

A few questions. Why would a cheaper technology lead to an increase in abortions? Don't they just kill the fetus anyway upon realization of the sex if it's undesirable? Wouldn't it ultimately be safer for the mother, to perform a very early term abortion if that's what she wants, rather than waiting? If a mother wants to abort at 60 days pregnant (assuming the new tech enables earlier sex identification), why shouldn…

Because she may not be the one actually making that "choice", and even if she is directly, it is made under massive cultural duress?

Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#17

Post by ceejayoz »

ck2 wrote: post #4

Hope they destroy the industry. 10 minutes of ultrasound to diagnose a serious illness can cost several hundred dollars in the USA Maybe in a decade it can even be built into smartphones like a tricorder. This device already looks like it can plug into a smartphone http://www.mobisante.com/products/product-overview/

> 10 minutes of ultrasound to diagnose a serious illness can cost several hundred dollars in the USA

Chances are only a small portion of that is the cost of the ultrasound machine.

Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#18

Post by kanzure »

GE has a $9k version (Vscan), and Rothberg says he wants to make this for $6k ("1000 times cheaper [than a $6M MRI machine]" is $6k). Is that really a significant improvement? I guess any price competition is good, but I was hoping for a Here's some reports from someone who has been using GE's portable ultrasound machine:

http://whyisamericanhealthcaresoexpensive.blogspot.com/2014/...

http://whyisamericanhealthcaresoexpensive.blogspot.com/2013/...

"It was an unexpected and welcome bonus that my patients and their families loved it. I would share the moving ultrasound pictures with them, often having them hold the machine so I could point out how beautiful their internal organs were and what we could see that helped give us a clue about their disease process. Many of these same patients also got full, detailed ultrasounds or other imaging by radiology technicians, but since the technicians aren't supposed to discuss findings with the patients and often they couldn't see the screen, it wasn't nearly as gratifying."

"When I see a patient now, instead of taking their pulse and placing my stethoscope on their chest and back, hearing the vague taps and clunks and bubbles and whooshes of the internal organs I have come to trust are in there, I open the ultrasound machine that lives in my white coat, squeeze a little gel from a tube I keep warm in my pocket...."

"The most common comment I get from patients is, "Wow, that's really cool!" "I agree!" I answer. Then they will ask, "Why doesn't everyone have one of these things?" That is kind of a difficult question. "They're pretty expensive," I usually say. They are. At least for now. The little machines (Vscan, by GE) retail for over $8000, though you can buy them cheaper used or overseas. Physicians balk at spending this amount of money on a piece of equipment. Most of the expensive gadgets we use are owned by hospitals or by our group practices. Musicians, however, who make a fraction of what we do, buy their own musical instruments which often cost in excess of $10,000. I'm not sure the cost ought to be a serious consideration."

I think in parts this can get down to way under $1k. Right now the bottleneck is the ultrasound transducer probe tips/fronts/arrays, which are apparently quite laborious to make. The image processing techniques are pretty standard and appear as open source software in at least one of TI's development kits.

edit: And as another commenter points out, yeah it's illegal to sell these machines or something (blame the Federal Death Administration).

Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#19

Post by pak »

seren wrote: post #11
juretriglav wrote: post #2

I guess what's new here is the capacitive micro-machined ultrasound transducers (CMUT), ultrasound emitters directly on a semi-conductor wafer. Though I would like to see what we can do with this technology without limitations of mobile/portable. In terms of portable ultrasound, there are a few existing solutions on the market: This looks pretty portable (connected to an iPhone too): http://www.mobisante.com/ GE's po…

The difference with GE Vscan seems to be the 3D reconstruction capabilities. However I am not sure if the 3D is really needed. I always understood the 3D ultrasound reconstruction as a gimmick (at least in obstetrics) to show parent the head of their future baby.

Most of the ultrasound-using doctors that I've talked to in med school seem to agree with you; if there's a real need for 3D imaging today, doctors (in 1st world countries at least) send the patient for a CT. The cost/benefit for 3D ultrasound doesn't compare favorably to CT because it is a much noisier imaging process and it takes just about as long as a CT.

That's why if you Google image search for "3D ultrasound", you get mostly pictures of fetus faces and very few medical conditions.

So, I see this product mostly benefitting the 3rd world, unless they vastly improve image quality and lowered the technical hurdles compared to existing ultrasound equipment. (Which would be awesome, but is a hard problem.)

Disclaimer: have used the Vscan as a student, but am no means an expert in ultrasound.

Re: New Startup Raises $100M for Portable Ultrasound

#20

Post by sitkack »

new299 wrote: post #6

Rothberg is something of a character. His two DNA sequencing companies (454 and Ion torrent) have both had what I would consider successful exits (solid to Roche and Life technologies respectively). But more importantly both products made their way into the hands of consumers (which is actually rare for DNA sequencing startups). However after acquisition both products failed to gain significant traction (Roche has ju…

My only experience with Roche is that they buy promising new technologies and shutter them. First they purchase the product, then they invest, then they purchase the company then they shut it down.
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