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Demystifying the MOOC

nytimes.com

11–20 of 29 posts

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#11
post #9
post #6

Of course MOOC students "fail" the courses, the whole point of it is to do self study, not to adhere to deadlines. Why would I follow an artificial deadline for my own studies?

I've taken a few courses, but "failed" all of them. I don't understand why the courses are designed from the constraints of college life and not the possibilities of Internet?

The "constraints of college" are a key part of what makes education work. Deadlines are an anti-procrastination device.

This is rarely acknowledged.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#12

It's not MOOCs that depend on mystification -- it's traditional universities. Whether for-profit or non-profit, these are institutions that rake in upwards of $50k per year per student in exchange for mostly worthless seminars on art history and communications. The only way they get away with this incredible fraud is that the fading mystique of a bachelor's degree (and increasingly the mystique of master's and doctor…

I'd elaborate on your 3rd point: some administrative units that are coordinating MOOCs underestimate the amount of time needed to plan, construct, and iteratively develop a truly excellent experience. The outcome is more or less predictable. I think a MOOC might probably be more like an iterative project (with bug fixes, updates to reflect new information, changes to reflect better explanations, etc.) -- it's not really "done" so much as "evolved". Designing a course is hard enough; designing one that can rest alone without direct feedback of the professor who gives the lecture series is more like a book project: those can take months and months of preparation and refinement. If you don't get credit for this effort, how could you dedicate time to it?

Once universities gives on-line MOOC career kudos similar to a book (or at least a peer-reviewed articles), the incentives to make the lectures truly great will emerge. I think this could transform community colleges and even some state colleges into institutions that provide one-on-one tutoring to those who really need/want the guided tour.

As a side note: Art History can be fascinating -- it's an excellent way to teach people to slow down, look closely, and form well-written, coherent logical arguments supported by evidence. It has a low barrier to entry. Unfortunately, I think much college eduction today is trying to make up for a completely broken primary and secondary school experience. Perhaps that should be our focus? Perhaps MOOCs will help in this regard -- by providing excellent eduction accessible to young children.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#13
post #8
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you prove what you know at a technical interview. I think a college degree is not the best indicator of knowledge. There are really useless people with Masters degrees in CS.

You and I may believe that a college degree is not the best indicator of knowledge, but industry at large (both inside and outside of technology) does not. Furthermore, proving a lifetime of learning and knowledge in the span of at most 8 hours is dubious at best and impossible at worst.

College dropouts (Gates, Jobs, Ellison, Zuckerberg, etc) can make it to the top in the tech world. OTOH, top tech companies like Google and Facebook routinely screen out candidates with Bachelors, Masters, and PhD degrees from top schools because they don't pass the technical interviews. This process itself is surely imperfect, but the ability to solve hard problems on the spot is generally more valued than a vegetable with a (once) sacred piece of paper.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#14

It's not MOOCs that depend on mystification -- it's traditional universities. Whether for-profit or non-profit, these are institutions that rake in upwards of $50k per year per student in exchange for mostly worthless seminars on art history and communications. The only way they get away with this incredible fraud is that the fading mystique of a bachelor's degree (and increasingly the mystique of master's and doctor…

"Coursera and edX, the two main MOOC providers, are essentially acting as gatekeepers for American higher education online, replicating in their virtual world the pecking order in the physical world as determined by U.S. News & World Report rankings."

Much in the same way the NY Times is a gatekeeper for journalistic and editorial mindshare. Both confer/act as a conduit for prestige, and neither is immune to competition.

I will say that personally I find MOOC's far more interesting and relevant than the NY Times.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#15
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken a few courses, but "failed" all of them. I don't understand why the courses are designed from the constraints of college life and not the possibilities of Internet?

The "constraints of college" are a key part of what makes education work. Deadlines are an anti-procrastination device. This is rarely acknowledged.

Yeah, deadlines definitely help. Additionally, the synchronization helps in terms of discussing the material.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#16

It's not MOOCs that depend on mystification -- it's traditional universities. Whether for-profit or non-profit, these are institutions that rake in upwards of $50k per year per student in exchange for mostly worthless seminars on art history and communications. The only way they get away with this incredible fraud is that the fading mystique of a bachelor's degree (and increasingly the mystique of master's and doctor…

And it is a good thing that the privileged people (to not keep using the stereotype of white men) are the early adopters. It would be irresponsible to make people whose time is much more essential to their survival to experiment new tech. A tech that might not deliver the expected value yet. A lot of non-profit do this and it is cruel when the experiment fail to deliver the value, which is often that case, as in any innovation process. Also, it is a great thing that the same tech might affect both the lives of privileged and unprivileged people. This a technology (in the broader sense of the word) that really reduces inequality. If both the son of a Harvard alumni and the son of a brazilian street-sweeper learn how to learn through the computer and internet, then it is a true uniting technology.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#17
I have a link to share (Why the “Low MOOC Completion Rate” Statistic is a Bogus Argument) : http://augmentedtrader.com/2013/07/24/why-the-low-mooc-compl...

This blog is written by one of the Coursera Course(Computational Investing) instructor. I will quote him "Much of the criticism of MOOCs centers on supposedly low completion rates. And these rates do seem low when compared to completion rates of regular university courses. But the comparison isn’t apples to apples. Let’s dive in by considering what does it mean to start a course. "

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I may believe that a college degree is not the best indicator of knowledge, but industry at large (both inside and outside of technology) does not. Furthermore, proving a lifetime of learning and knowledge in the span of at most 8 hours is dubious at best and impossible at worst.

College dropouts (Gates, Jobs, Ellison, Zuckerberg, etc) can make it to the top in the tech world. OTOH, top tech companies like Google and Facebook routinely screen out candidates with Bachelors, Masters, and PhD degrees from top schools because they don't pass the technical interviews. This process itself is surely imperfect, but the ability to solve hard problems on the spot is generally more valued than a vegetab…

All 4 of the dropouts you mentioned started their own companies.

I think the more mature the company (the more of a typical corporation it is), the less likely they are to consider someone w/o a college degree.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College dropouts (Gates, Jobs, Ellison, Zuckerberg, etc) can make it to the top in the tech world. OTOH, top tech companies like Google and Facebook routinely screen out candidates with Bachelors, Masters, and PhD degrees from top schools because they don't pass the technical interviews. This process itself is surely imperfect, but the ability to solve hard problems on the spot is generally more valued than a vegetab…

All 4 of the dropouts you mentioned started their own companies. I think the more mature the company (the more of a typical corporation it is), the less likely they are to consider someone w/o a college degree.

Interestingly, Google has seemed to go in the opposite direction. From being staunchly vocal about hiring only graduates from top universities when they were still comparatively small, to coming out and saying that educational histories not correlating in any meaningful way with employee performance as they've grown.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#20
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken a few courses, but "failed" all of them. I don't understand why the courses are designed from the constraints of college life and not the possibilities of Internet?

The "constraints of college" are a key part of what makes education work. Deadlines are an anti-procrastination device. This is rarely acknowledged.

I think the key difference is that college is trying to set you up for life, whereas MOOCs are available for life. When I have turned to MOOCs in the past, it was because I had a specific goal in mind. Once that goal was met, which may have been half-way through the class, I had no reason to continue. In the future I may have a new goal that requires I finish the course, and I will do so at that time. There is no advantage to forcing me to have it complete within a set timeframe.
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