How bad is the California drought? • Hacker News Board

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#11

Post by function_seven » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 10:46 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #8

It's bad. I recently drove to LA through the central valley, and in 18 years of doing that drive, I've never seen it so dry. Whole farms are just gone, everything is brown. There are a couple of problems preventing us from saving more water though. #1, we had a drought in the 80s. A lot of people learned to conserve then and never changed their habits (like me). There is no way I could use 20% less water -- I already…

This is what I don't get about the way this is being handled. Instead of threatening $500 fines for people whose neighbors rat them out, why don't they price water to its true cost¹? I guarantee consumption would plummet if the consumer had to pay for it.

¹Sure, there probably still needs to be variances for residential vs. agricultural use, and tier 1 vs. 2+, etc.

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#12

Post by jedberg » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 10:53 PM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #11

jedberg wrote: post #8

It's bad. I recently drove to LA through the central valley, and in 18 years of doing that drive, I've never seen it so dry. Whole farms are just gone, everything is brown. There are a couple of problems preventing us from saving more water though. #1, we had a drought in the 80s. A lot of people learned to conserve then and never changed their habits (like me). There is no way I could use 20% less water -- I already…

This is what I don't get about the way this is being handled. Instead of threatening $500 fines for people whose neighbors rat them out, why don't they price water to its true cost¹? I guarantee consumption would plummet if the consumer had to pay for it. ¹Sure, there probably still needs to be variances for residential vs. agricultural use, and tier 1 vs. 2+, etc.

Yes! That is what I am saying. I feel for the poor and the farmers, and I'm totally fine with paying more so they can pay less. I know I won't pay much more because I conserve, but the asshat down the street who waters the sidewalk will pay a lot more and I'm ok with that too.

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#13

Post by holychiz » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 11:00 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #10

byoung2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last month, 3 of my neighbors have removed their lawns in favor of rockscape or mulch. LADWP is offering $3 per square foot if you remove your lawn, so that is encouraging people.

They're doing that here in the bay area too. My question is, do I have to have grass to count as a lawn? I stopped watering my lawn the day I bought the house, so at this point it is just dirt. Can I still the the $3/sqft to put in turf?

where can i can more info on this deal? I'm based in Mountain View and willing to stop this front lawn nonsense, especially if they'll pay me for it.

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#14

Post by gcv » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 11:01 PM UTC

I went camping at Snow Mountain in Mendocino Forest a few weeks ago. Not a drop of water anywhere, only dry stream beds. Extremely high risk of fire. No sign of mammals larger than chipmunks.

Meanwhile, I'm sure this hasn't changed: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21596955-drought... — choice quote: “Last week Barack Obama visited Fresno, in California’s fecund Central Valley, to announce $183m of federal aid before spending three days golfing on well-watered courses in the desert.”

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#15

Post by pdq » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 11:01 PM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #11

jedberg wrote: post #8

It's bad. I recently drove to LA through the central valley, and in 18 years of doing that drive, I've never seen it so dry. Whole farms are just gone, everything is brown. There are a couple of problems preventing us from saving more water though. #1, we had a drought in the 80s. A lot of people learned to conserve then and never changed their habits (like me). There is no way I could use 20% less water -- I already…

This is what I don't get about the way this is being handled. Instead of threatening $500 fines for people whose neighbors rat them out, why don't they price water to its true cost¹? I guarantee consumption would plummet if the consumer had to pay for it. ¹Sure, there probably still needs to be variances for residential vs. agricultural use, and tier 1 vs. 2+, etc.

Politicians, like most of the public, prefer to believe they have power over markets, and will use top-down rationing, rather than market-based pricing. See the gas/oil shortages of the 1970's, vs letting the market choose the price and having supply/demand automatically equalize based on price.

Also, some of the officials making the rules on water restrictions are guzzlers themselves [1].

1. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/california/California-Water-...

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#16

Post by exabrial » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 11:04 PM UTC

Need: [(Solar || Nuclear Power) + Desalination]

There's plenty of water available (Ocean), but California needs to spend it's money on the right things. Too many frivolous laws and programs.

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#17

Post by meeks » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 11:15 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #8

It's bad. I recently drove to LA through the central valley, and in 18 years of doing that drive, I've never seen it so dry. Whole farms are just gone, everything is brown. There are a couple of problems preventing us from saving more water though. #1, we had a drought in the 80s. A lot of people learned to conserve then and never changed their habits (like me). There is no way I could use 20% less water -- I already…

The number 1 way to conserve water is to eat less meat. I don't think that people have learned this yet and most people have not changed their habits to consume less meat.

Serious question: why is it acceptable to change all kinds of behaviors, take shorter showers, fix leaks, turn off taps, and even install gray water systems, yet not change our behavior to eat less meat?

If you didn't eat beef for one day (1/2 lb beef = 1,250 gallons of fresh water) it could be the same as not showering for a month.

Sources: http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-practices-management/irr...

http://www.ewg.org/meateatersguide/interactive-graphic/water...

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#18

Post by spikels » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 11:16 PM UTC

function_seven wrote: post #11

jedberg wrote: post #8

It's bad. I recently drove to LA through the central valley, and in 18 years of doing that drive, I've never seen it so dry. Whole farms are just gone, everything is brown. There are a couple of problems preventing us from saving more water though. #1, we had a drought in the 80s. A lot of people learned to conserve then and never changed their habits (like me). There is no way I could use 20% less water -- I already…

This is what I don't get about the way this is being handled. Instead of threatening $500 fines for people whose neighbors rat them out, why don't they price water to its true cost¹? I guarantee consumption would plummet if the consumer had to pay for it. ¹Sure, there probably still needs to be variances for residential vs. agricultural use, and tier 1 vs. 2+, etc.

Domestic water is probably overpriced not underpriced. It's the farmers who pay way too little (often zero!) for water. This has created screwed up incentives for farmers. Many crops are worth less than the true cost of the water needed to grow them!

This is what happens when you have a system driven by politics and not the market - it's prone to lose touch with reality (actual cost/value). Unfortunately it will be very difficult to get back to prices based on actual costs - smaller number of big losers (some farmers) and lots of small winners (consumers & taxpayers) as well as tons of interlocking, inflexible regulations and subsidies (local, state & federal).

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#19

Post by pecanpie » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 11:16 PM UTC

holychiz wrote: post #13

jedberg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're doing that here in the bay area too. My question is, do I have to have grass to count as a lawn? I stopped watering my lawn the day I bought the house, so at this point it is just dirt. Can I still the the $3/sqft to put in turf?

where can i can more info on this deal? I'm based in Mountain View and willing to stop this front lawn nonsense, especially if they'll pay me for it.

A list of Bay Area rebate programs:

http://www.bayfriendlycoalition.org/LYL-rebates.shtml

And the program most relevant to your current question:

http://www.valleywater.org/Programs/LandscapeRebateProgram.a...

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#20

Post by kolev » Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 11:18 PM UTC

gcv wrote: post #14

I went camping at Snow Mountain in Mendocino Forest a few weeks ago. Not a drop of water anywhere, only dry stream beds. Extremely high risk of fire. No sign of mammals larger than chipmunks. Meanwhile, I'm sure this hasn't changed: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21596955-drought... — choice quote: “Last week Barack Obama visited Fresno, in California’s fecund Central Valley, to announce $183m of federal…

This president is one of the biggest hypocrites! I can never forget him being caught saying: "I'm very good at killing people." And he's a Nobel Prize Laureate!