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Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

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Re: Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

#11
http://qz.com/285851/the-most-important-things-mark-zuckerbe...

|But those blown away by Zuck’s Chinese chinwag might want to know that though he’s clearly memorized a lot of relevant words, those were still shoehorned into a distinctly American grammatical order. Pronunciation is also a problem: He showed a plucky disregard for the tones that Mandarin has—one tonal slip-up had him saying that Facebook boasts eleven mobile users instead of 1 billion—and his enunciation was roughly on par with the clarity possible when someone’s stepping on your face.

Still, I'm impressed. Mandarin is (f'n) hard, takes balls to speak a language you don't master in front of a crowd (and subsequently all teh interwebs).

Re: Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

#12
post #3

It didn't blow my mind. He learned a language, quite some people do that, even if the language is hard and remote. Headline disproven. Edit: it is impressive, as any language skill remote from you mother tongue. But I am not a fan of superlatives, especially if they indicate that I should take part in the appreciation. FWIW: German headline on the topic: "Facebook CEO [...] impresses students". http://www.spiegel.de/…

The current headline (for posterity: "Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind") is very editorialised. Hopefully it gets changed.

Re: Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

#13
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually context matters here. If some one from USA/UK/France, for example, learns a new language it definitely is a surprise. May be blows the mind is not the right word. On the other hand, it is common for people from Southern India to know 4 or 5 languages and it is not surprising.

During my time in France, most people of my age where pretty frustrated that they didn't learn foreign languages properly at school and tried to compensate. For people in international companies, learning new languages on the job is also very normal, almost all companies have programs for that.

The vast, vast majority of employees working for American companies, even in an international deployment, don't tend to learn more than a few dozen catch phrases (Hello, Good Bye, How are you doing, where is the toilet, take me to the airport, etc...) for the country they are deployed to - they just hope everyone will speak english to them.

I'm wondering if Mark is the first Fortune 500 CEO to ever learn a different language while working as a CEO? I'm almost certain he's the first American CEO of a fortune 500 to learn mandarin while working as a CEO.

Re: Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

#14
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually context matters here. If some one from USA/UK/France, for example, learns a new language it definitely is a surprise. May be blows the mind is not the right word. On the other hand, it is common for people from Southern India to know 4 or 5 languages and it is not surprising.

During my time in France, most people of my age where pretty frustrated that they didn't learn foreign languages properly at school and tried to compensate. For people in international companies, learning new languages on the job is also very normal, almost all companies have programs for that.

People under 30-35 in France now tend to learn and speak foreign languages. It wasn't the case before. The focus on learning new languages in France only really started at the end of the 90s with, for example, engineering degrees requiring some English certification to obtain and companies creating programs to train their employees in different languages.

Re: Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

#16
Reposted from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8496518

A review of his Mandarin based on a close listen of the first 5 minutes of the video and listening to the rest in the background while I type this (let me know if it changes later):

tl;dr - Definitely ILR 1+, probably an ILR 2. Pronunciation needs a ton of work, but that's not the only aspect that is measured when analyzing speech. The foreign policy article (linked in another comment) is overly critical, imho.

Detailed:

ILR LEVEL

He's definitely at least an ILR 1+. He shows signs of ILR 2 characteristics (and is probably an ILR 2), but it's hard to tell if he can sustain them in a wide range of contexts. While his pronunciation needs A LOT of work, the language itself is comprehensible to a sympathetic native listener. I strongly disagree with the Foreign Policy article that says it was "terrible". I would say that it's actually kind of amazing given that he's the CEO of a huge company. I would roughly say that he is on par with a good / above average 3rd year student at a school with a really good Chinese program. The original article says 2nd year, but this would be a superstar 2nd year student who was either a heritage speaker or had spent a lot of time in China (e.g., as a homestay or study abroad).

DISCOURSE STRUCTURE AND STYLE

He is able to sustain the dialogue for a long time. He is able to circumlocute decently (this really opens up the ability to communicate), but I would really like to see his range of circumlocution. He is able to string together his sentences in moderately cohesive paragraphs. He does not demonstrate the ability to combine paragraphs cohesively at a high level (signs of an ILR 3), but I don't think the tasks really required it.

His style of answering questions was very American -- very direct. I don't think that a Chinese speaker who has lived exclusively in China (i.e., not educated or trained in the "West") would answer the same questions similarly. In this case, I actually think that it's best for him to answer in an American way even if he could answer in a Chinese style, but that's a different and longer discussion.

Early on when he tells the story of his wife and her grandmother, he really comes across as quite charming.

GRAMMAR

He does decently enough. There are errors, but it's not hard to understand what he is saying -- especially for a sympathetic native listener. The sample didn't really demonstrate a wide range of grammar, but the tasks didn't necessarily require a wide range. He is able to say complex sentences (i.e., two independent clauses), and he is able to speak in different timeframes (normally tenses, but Chinese tenses are not like English). This all points to a solid ILR 2, but grammar is definitely not the toughest part of Mandarin.

VOCABULARY

He has a decent vocabulary -- it's solid for the task. I wonder what his vocabulary is like outside of the topics of personal bio information, Facebook, and Facebook business. If he wants to get to ILR 2+ or ILR 3, he will need to work on the accuracy and diversity of his vocabulary.

PRONUNCIATION

This is easily his weakest point. He has a HEAVY American accent. He mispronounces a lot of words. His tones are WAY off. He seems completely unable to say English loan words in Chinese (e.g., Facebook, Google, etc.). It's actually kind of hard to listen to. That being said, I would say that it is all comprehensible to a sympathetic native listener.

SUMMARY

Overall, really good for someone who is not studying full time and has a very involved full time job. I wonder how much of it was practiced or rehearsed -- a lot of the questions are ones that he definitely _should_ practice (e.g., the story about why he started studying Chinese), since they are standard questions that would be asked to him and/or the Facebook CEO. Regardless, speaking in a foreign language to a large group of people is not easy, and he came across really well.

RECOMMENDATIONS

He can work on his pronunciation in several ways:

- Listen more. Even if it's on in the background, it will help. Right now, I don't think he has a good intuitive sense when he is mispronouncing a word.

- When working with a teacher, do lower level language tasks, and act like a native speaker whose voice/accent he likes. Research suggests that this lowers affective filters for pronunciation.

- Work with suprasegmentals with a pronunciation program that visualize what he's saying. It can be enlightening.

- Practice over pronouncing words. If he does what he perceives as a "caricature" of pronouncing the word, he will probably be closer to accurate.

Other than that, listen more, read more, and I think he will become a rock-solid ILR 2 with room for growth if he wants it.

That's my quick-and-dirty. I am very interested in the informed opinions of others.

Re: Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

#17
He learned a language that's fundamentally different from his mother tongue.

Impressive. In my home country, you can't get your graduate degree without speaking 2 languages besides your mother tongue -- and the difference between English and Hungarian is not really smaller than English vs. Mandarin.

Re: Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

#18
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a lot of people don't.

Actually context matters here. If some one from USA/UK/France, for example, learns a new language it definitely is a surprise. May be blows the mind is not the right word. On the other hand, it is common for people from Southern India to know 4 or 5 languages and it is not surprising.

We do learn 2 foreign languages in France during school (English + German/Spanish/Italian/whatever) so I'm not really sure why it would be a surprise to hear a french speak another language. They might suck at it though.

Re: Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

#19
I think that everyone saying "I know tons of people that learnt a second language, so what" are missing the point. No, in a human being it is not that exceptional. However, a billionaire like Mark Zuckerberg might be well inclined to not bother, and expect everyone around him to speak his own language. But he went out of his way to learn.

No, we shouldn't give him the Nobel Peace Prize for it, but we can say "nice, good on you", and carry on our day.

Re: Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin, Blows Everyone’s Mind

#20
post #16

Reposted from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8496518 A review of his Mandarin based on a close listen of the first 5 minutes of the video and listening to the rest in the background while I type this (let me know if it changes later): tl;dr - Definitely ILR 1+, probably an ILR 2. Pronunciation needs a ton of work, but that's not the only aspect that is measured when analyzing speech. The foreign policy ar…

A question if you will: What the hell is an ILR?

Also yay I learned a word - circumlocution.

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