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Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

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Re: Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

#11

Post by MCRed »

_acme wrote: post #7
mandeepj wrote: post #3

What is his problem? I think they are all trying every-possible-trick-under-their-belly to slow down the storm called TESLA. The day TESLA becomes mainstream the mafia of car dealers, oil rigs will go down the drain. NO MORE OIL.

You do understand that electricity is still needed to charge these cars, right, and that a lot of that energy comes from oil (or worse, coal).

When I was a kid, I saw the movie Logans Run (1970s). They made it to washington DC and found a car. They didn't know what it was, but they shined a light on it, and it started to activate and so they conclduded "maybe this thing is powered by the sun"... and it was.

Well, it's been 40 years since that movie was made. Alas, a solar powered car may still be many years off... but the elegance of it is certainly extremely appealing.

One problem: I love the Tesla's expansive sunroof. Would want solar collectors that are at least semi-transparent to light.

Re: Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

#12

Post by baddox »

MCRed wrote: post #4

I believe that this law is in direct violation of the commerce clause[1]. The commerce clause was designed to prevent tarrifs from being placed on products from one state being sold in another state. They wanted to prevent inter-state trade wars. Being forced to go thru a dealer network that (theoretically) adds no value while extracting a cut of sales is a form of a tarrif (or at least, I think it is arguably one).…

This wouldn't be a violation of the commerce clause per se. The commerce clause just says that the federal government has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. In other words, the US legislature could pass a law prohibiting these restrictions on Tesla sales, and that law would be constitutional.

Re: Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

#13

Post by baddox »

duaneb wrote: post #5

How are these people justifying these changes to their constituents? It's pretty hard to justify mucking with the free markets except to protected vested interests. Most of the time, these vested interests have very little to do with the voters.

I think you underestimate the brazenness with which politicians can approach these issues. George W. Bush practically boasted that he had deliberately abandoned free market principles. You might be overestimating how much love people have for the free market as they understand it.

Re: Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

#14

Post by beastman82 »

_acme wrote: post #7
mandeepj wrote: post #3

What is his problem? I think they are all trying every-possible-trick-under-their-belly to slow down the storm called TESLA. The day TESLA becomes mainstream the mafia of car dealers, oil rigs will go down the drain. NO MORE OIL.

You do understand that electricity is still needed to charge these cars, right, and that a lot of that energy comes from oil (or worse, coal).

or better, nuclear

Re: Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

#15

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

duaneb wrote: post #5

How are these people justifying these changes to their constituents? It's pretty hard to justify mucking with the free markets except to protected vested interests. Most of the time, these vested interests have very little to do with the voters.

They "justify" it by claiming that direct sales would threaten the jobs of the dealer industry, not that it actually justifies anything. By that reasoning, we should not have allowed manufacturing to become mechanized, because "think of the factory workers!".

Re: Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

#16

Post by abtinf »

MCRed wrote: post #4

I believe that this law is in direct violation of the commerce clause[1]. The commerce clause was designed to prevent tarrifs from being placed on products from one state being sold in another state. They wanted to prevent inter-state trade wars. Being forced to go thru a dealer network that (theoretically) adds no value while extracting a cut of sales is a form of a tarrif (or at least, I think it is arguably one).…

Michigan is not discriminating against Tesla. They are not saying "only Tesla may not sell direct to consumer." Instead, they are saying "No auto manufacturer, regardless of their state, may sell direct to consumer." Thus, no commerce clause violation.

Re: Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

#17

Post by duaneb »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #8
duaneb wrote: post #5

How are these people justifying these changes to their constituents? It's pretty hard to justify mucking with the free markets except to protected vested interests. Most of the time, these vested interests have very little to do with the voters.

I'd wager that in Michigan, a large part of the constituency works for non-Tesla car manufacturers. They might be just fine with it.

I still think they would be more convincing attempting to get Tesla to sell to dealerships (lol) or to attempt to get Tesla to move some of the manufacturing to Detroit. I can't see this being positive for the taxpayers of Michigan for more than a few years.

Re: Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

#19

Post by mikeash »

MCRed wrote: post #11
_acme wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do understand that electricity is still needed to charge these cars, right, and that a lot of that energy comes from oil (or worse, coal).

When I was a kid, I saw the movie Logans Run (1970s). They made it to washington DC and found a car. They didn't know what it was, but they shined a light on it, and it started to activate and so they conclduded "maybe this thing is powered by the sun"... and it was. Well, it's been 40 years since that movie was made. Alas, a solar powered car may still be many years off... but the elegance of it is certainly extreme…

There just isn't enough surface area. A Model S has a roof area of around 9m^2. The sun provides about 1000W/m^2 on a clear day at high noon when directly overhead, so with 100% efficient solar cells on a perfect day, you'd get around 9kW of electricity. A Model S goes about 4 miles per kWh when it's doing well, so in this ideal situation you'd top out at around 36MPH. In the real world, the sun isn't directly overhead, and real solar cells have more like 20% efficiency, so cut that number down by a factor of ten or more.

The best way to build a solar-powered car would be to have a battery-powered car that gets recharged from solar energy. Basically, a Model S and a home solar generating system.

Re: Governor Snyder signs a law to ban Tesla direct sales in Michigan

#20

Post by mandeepj »

_acme wrote: post #7
mandeepj wrote: post #3

What is his problem? I think they are all trying every-possible-trick-under-their-belly to slow down the storm called TESLA. The day TESLA becomes mainstream the mafia of car dealers, oil rigs will go down the drain. NO MORE OIL.

You do understand that electricity is still needed to charge these cars, right, and that a lot of that energy comes from oil (or worse, coal).

We can call it (Tesla) incremental departure from oil. Down the line, we might be able to charge tesla under lot lesser time than what it takes today. May be we will have solar tesla or self charging tesla.

At least, these constant rip-offs of every n month this fluid change will go away.

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