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Emacs 24.4 RC 1

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Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#11

Post by viksit »

rezistik wrote: post #6
viksit wrote: post #4

As someone who uses emacs purely for clojure/lisp and vim for everything else, the biggest feature for me is the fact that this will be the first version of emacs to support menus in terminal mode . So for all the commands you don't remember, a menu is now a click or F10 away. To quote, "Emacs now supports menus on text-mode terminals. If the terminal supports a mouse, clicking on the menu bar, or on sensitive portio…

As a dev who's always used Sublime/Atom and sometimes Vim, what's the benefit of Emacs for Lisp?

There's quite a lot of technology that allows you to write lisp/clojure very well in emacs. Some that come to mind,

- Swank/Slime (Lisp inferior modes) that allow you to write lisp, evaluate within the editor, see your results in a buffer. Offer auto complete, refactoring, debugging et al.

The more recent nrepl and cider modes for Clojure build on top of slime/swank and offer extremely great tools to write code as well. If you ever wanted to have the REPL running on the side and have great interop between code in a file and the REPL - these modes are great. Imagine their power when you can connect into a running webserver and debug on the fly from within your editor.

- A lot of original emacs plugins like paredit have now been ported to other platforms like Sublime. Also, emacs itself is written in lisp, which makes it a first class language it supports at its very core.

Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#12

Post by tjr »

Crito wrote: post #10

> "As always, if you encounter problems building or using Emacs, please send a report to address@hidden with full details" What's up with "address@hidden"?

This is the web representation of a mailing list email, and the software that prepares the message for viewing on the web conceals email addresses like that, to help mitigate people receiving unwanted mail (e.g., and probably especially, spam).

Had you been on the mailing list and received this content via mail, the address would have ostensibly not been concealed.

Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#13

Post by craigching »

rezistik wrote: post #6
viksit wrote: post #4

As someone who uses emacs purely for clojure/lisp and vim for everything else, the biggest feature for me is the fact that this will be the first version of emacs to support menus in terminal mode . So for all the commands you don't remember, a menu is now a click or F10 away. To quote, "Emacs now supports menus on text-mode terminals. If the terminal supports a mouse, clicking on the menu bar, or on sensitive portio…

As a dev who's always used Sublime/Atom and sometimes Vim, what's the benefit of Emacs for Lisp?

I can speak about Clojure support for Emacs a bit, but I don't know how much of this Sublime or Atom can do.

I like the cider+nrepl workflow myself. You can edit your code, reevaluate it, and test it without having to restart your JVM. As you can imagine, this really speeds up development.

Also, though I haven't quite grokked all the barfing and slurping yet, paredit has really become a huge part of my code writing and editing in Emacs for Clojure code. I am on the cusp of getting barfing and slurping working for me now ;)

Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#14

Post by BostonEnginerd »

rezistik wrote: post #6
viksit wrote: post #4

As someone who uses emacs purely for clojure/lisp and vim for everything else, the biggest feature for me is the fact that this will be the first version of emacs to support menus in terminal mode . So for all the commands you don't remember, a menu is now a click or F10 away. To quote, "Emacs now supports menus on text-mode terminals. If the terminal supports a mouse, clicking on the menu bar, or on sensitive portio…

As a dev who's always used Sublime/Atom and sometimes Vim, what's the benefit of Emacs for Lisp?

Emacs is pretty much a built in REPL primarily written in Lisp.

Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#15

Post by Havvy »

viksit wrote: post #11
rezistik wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a dev who's always used Sublime/Atom and sometimes Vim, what's the benefit of Emacs for Lisp?

There's quite a lot of technology that allows you to write lisp/clojure very well in emacs. Some that come to mind, - Swank/Slime (Lisp inferior modes) that allow you to write lisp, evaluate within the editor, see your results in a buffer. Offer auto complete, refactoring, debugging et al. The more recent nrepl and cider modes for Clojure build on top of slime/swank and offer extremely great tools to write code as we…

Each lisp varies dramatically in its semantics. Just because emacs is written in e-lisp does not mean it has first class language support for every other lisp. Would you say that vim has first class support for every language with block & statement based languages?

Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#16

Post by viksit »

Havvy wrote: post #15
viksit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's quite a lot of technology that allows you to write lisp/clojure very well in emacs. Some that come to mind, - Swank/Slime (Lisp inferior modes) that allow you to write lisp, evaluate within the editor, see your results in a buffer. Offer auto complete, refactoring, debugging et al. The more recent nrepl and cider modes for Clojure build on top of slime/swank and offer extremely great tools to write code as we…

Each lisp varies dramatically in its semantics. Just because emacs is written in e-lisp does not mean it has first class language support for every other lisp. Would you say that vim has first class support for every language with block & statement based languages?

Agree with your high level point. Mine isn't that because it's written in e-lisp, emacs supports every other lisp. The fact that it's written in e-lisp makes it very extensible, and some standard things like C-x C-e to evaluate forms et al, which were originally developed for and are the standard for e-lisp, have been adopted for all other lisp modes as well. The very fact that the editor is written in a lisp makes it expose useful functionality this is useful in other lisp contexts.

Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#17

Post by linuxfan »

viksit wrote: post #4

As someone who uses emacs purely for clojure/lisp and vim for everything else, the biggest feature for me is the fact that this will be the first version of emacs to support menus in terminal mode . So for all the commands you don't remember, a menu is now a click or F10 away. To quote, "Emacs now supports menus on text-mode terminals. If the terminal supports a mouse, clicking on the menu bar, or on sensitive portio…

Just curious. How did you manage to use both emacs and vim? I've seen that people accustomed to one editor are usually averse to using the other.

Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#18

Post by inclemnet »

linuxfan wrote: post #17
viksit wrote: post #4

As someone who uses emacs purely for clojure/lisp and vim for everything else, the biggest feature for me is the fact that this will be the first version of emacs to support menus in terminal mode . So for all the commands you don't remember, a menu is now a click or F10 away. To quote, "Emacs now supports menus on text-mode terminals. If the terminal supports a mouse, clicking on the menu bar, or on sensitive portio…

Just curious. How did you manage to use both emacs and vim? I've seen that people accustomed to one editor are usually averse to using the other.

> I've seen that people accustomed to one editor are usually averse to using the other.

I think this is more a meme than necessarily a reality - you'll tend to see a lot more comments online from people who think the old joke is funny or who want to validate their own choice than from people who don't care or have tried both without such strong feelings.

In reality, there's really no barrier to 'manage' to use both emacs and vim. If anything, since they're both powerful and configurable programs whose best configuration is personal and some way from the default, it probably is harder to construct your own perfect config in both than for simpler alternatives like web browsers - I guess this may lead to a practical aversion.

Personally, I think vim's modal editing is superb but generally prefer the behaviour of emacs' modes and client model, so I use emacs with evil-mode but have no problem using vim if necessary.

Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#19

Post by viksit »

linuxfan wrote: post #17
viksit wrote: post #4

As someone who uses emacs purely for clojure/lisp and vim for everything else, the biggest feature for me is the fact that this will be the first version of emacs to support menus in terminal mode . So for all the commands you don't remember, a menu is now a click or F10 away. To quote, "Emacs now supports menus on text-mode terminals. If the terminal supports a mouse, clicking on the menu bar, or on sensitive portio…

Just curious. How did you manage to use both emacs and vim? I've seen that people accustomed to one editor are usually averse to using the other.

Hehe because I don't subscribe to monotheism? ;) I prefer vim's modal editing mode and have been using it as my primary for as long as I can remember. For clojure/lisp, I found that the vim tooling was just not as elegant/efficient as emacs (fireside et al arent as nice as cider/swank), and decided to learn how to use it. It's not that much of an "antipattern" because the keymaps are very different. I don't like using vim mode within emacs either - for some reason I find myself thinking in emacs mode when editing lisps. I do think that I could be more productive in emacs if I invested more time in the tutorials, but so far it hasn't been an issue. To me, it's more like needing to know how to use Eclipse or IntelliJ to program in Java since their tooling is so great.

Re: Emacs 24.4 RC 1

#20

Post by methehack »

viksit wrote: post #19
linuxfan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious. How did you manage to use both emacs and vim? I've seen that people accustomed to one editor are usually averse to using the other.

Hehe because I don't subscribe to monotheism? ;) I prefer vim's modal editing mode and have been using it as my primary for as long as I can remember. For clojure/lisp, I found that the vim tooling was just not as elegant/efficient as emacs (fireside et al arent as nice as cider/swank), and decided to learn how to use it. It's not that much of an "antipattern" because the keymaps are very different. I don't like usin…

You might consider checking out evil mode. It's for real. Does not feel like emulation at all.
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