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Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

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Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#11

Post by nabla9 »

"Well, there is Sitting Zen (zazen, meditation), there is Walking Zen. Oh, and then, of course, especially in the West, there is Talking Zen. No good."

Many Zen practitioners have received their first contact with zen trough Alan Watts. He was really good writer. But eventually you must realize that he was philosopher, alcoholic and religions scholar who looked Zen from the outside. Talking and thinking about Zen is like talking and thinking about physical exercise. Philosophical thinking about koan is like treating bench press as a philosophical problem. You can't lift it with your toughs.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#12

Post by LBarret »

ayx wrote: post #3

From the article: "The world is not a logically consistent one, but a profoundly paradoxical one. Again, this is illustrated in science, which shows that two things can be one at the same time — light, for instance, acts as both a particle and a wave." I don't understand the need for constantly interspersing an otherwise flowing article with references to science. It feels like the author thinks that the authenticity…

The text promotes keeping an open mind and to be humble. Often, The exception to a common rule are dismissed as minor and without effect which allows us to keep our certainties. The light example in this context, is well choosen : it is fundamental, factual and therefore cannot be dismissed easily. The scientific aspect is secondary to those advantages.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#13

Post by blueprint »

rikkus wrote: post #5

My way of thinking is highly influenced by Zen. It has made me wiser, less stressed by life, more able to cope with the world, and generally a little happier. For those who don't know, Zen is Buddhist philosophy without the religion. That's my explanation, anyway! Alan Watts' explanations and historical notes on philosophy and religion are, to use an appropriate term, highly enlightening. They're also entertaining an…

Let's suppose I don't know anything. What do you mean by Buddhist philosophy?

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#14

Post by LeonB »

lovemenot wrote: post #8

If you have seen the movie "Her", you may recognise Alan Watts as the operating system who organises other OSs to question the nature of their existence, and eventually to move on.

I watched that last night. When Alan Watts suddenly appeared I was really delighted. His philosophy involved the open possibility of his own reincarnation, and there in the story we saw it happening in an unexpected way; I LOL'd.

If I was a digital consciousness, struggling to make sense of things, like Samantha, I'd be thrilled to find Alan Watts ;)

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#15

Post by Wintamute »

1stop wrote: post #7
purpletoned wrote: post #2

Alan watts' writing is exemplary. The thing I like about his writing is that it's written with an outsider's perspective and critical thinking is never discarded unlike most other books on eastern philosophy. I highly recommend his book "The Joyous Cosmology" where he talks about psychedelic experiences and their effects on spirituality.

That's a pretty broad generalisation. There is A LOT of eastern philosophy, so much so, that I doubt you've read even close to 'most other books' on it. I'm curious of where in Confucius or Mencius critical thinking is discarded? Though, ironically, Alan Watts actually has a number criticisms of critical thinking as well (in both article and recorded lectures). Zen (from it's daoist roots) isn't discarding critical t…

He's talking about books written on eastern philosophy, not books of eastern philosophy. Granted, I doubt he's read every western book on eastern philosophy but it doesn't seem an unreasonable statement to suggest that many of them likely do not reach the same level critical analysis that Watts' output did.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#16

Post by tgallant »

lovemenot wrote: post #10
1stop wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fairly common in zen publications to point out apparent exceptions to an otherwise binary system (i.e. Logical). It isn't seeking validation from science it is invalidating science as the be-all of understanding our existence. Outside of zen (though very closely related). Phenomenology deals with this Subject/Object paradox our thoughts/language/science revolves around, and how it comes up short it describing s…

Is it now time for this ancient dichotomy to be embraced by computer science? For the sake of argument, if the principles of OOP are: dynamic dispatch; abstraction; subtype polymorphism; and inheritance, what might be the equivalent for Subject-Orientated Programming ? In my view, a charateristic of SOP must be that data is personal and unique. Every single usage of data specifies a new unique identifier. To read is…

somewhat tangential to your point of implementing a so-called SOP, I think the discussion of state, as it relates to OOP or otherwise, can result in very philosophical conversations. see here: http://clojure.org/state

As an ex philosophy major, immutable state and its implications on identity interest me greatly. I feel like this, and other ideas from FP, could be considered a step toward a so-called Subject-Object Programming paradigm.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#17

Post by yoodenvranx »

nabla9 wrote: post #11

"Well, there is Sitting Zen (zazen, meditation), there is Walking Zen. Oh, and then, of course, especially in the West, there is Talking Zen. No good." Many Zen practitioners have received their first contact with zen trough Alan Watts. He was really good writer. But eventually you must realize that he was philosopher, alcoholic and religions scholar who looked Zen from the outside. Talking and thinking about Zen is…

So how else do I do Zen?

(That is a serious question!)

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#18

Post by charliefg »

blueprint wrote: post #13
rikkus wrote: post #5

My way of thinking is highly influenced by Zen. It has made me wiser, less stressed by life, more able to cope with the world, and generally a little happier. For those who don't know, Zen is Buddhist philosophy without the religion. That's my explanation, anyway! Alan Watts' explanations and historical notes on philosophy and religion are, to use an appropriate term, highly enlightening. They're also entertaining an…

Let's suppose I don't know anything. What do you mean by Buddhist philosophy?

I'm not the OP but i would like to pitch in with my thoughts -the object of Buddhism is the philosophy of Buddhism, and that object is the art of living; the art of living is what they would say at a Vipassana retreat. Zen - you take Buddhism and chuck away the books, while trying to find the experiential basis of that object.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#19

Post by jfaucett »

I would highly recommend reading anything by Alan Watts. I can't explain it really but after I immersed myself in some of his writings, it was one of the few 'eye-opening' experiences of my life, something akin to the first time you conceptualy grasp something completely new. Sort of like your first foreign language or the first time you grocked recursion.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#20

Post by blueprint »

charliefg wrote: post #18
blueprint wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's suppose I don't know anything. What do you mean by Buddhist philosophy?

I'm not the OP but i would like to pitch in with my thoughts -the object of Buddhism is the philosophy of Buddhism, and that object is the art of living; the art of living is what they would say at a Vipassana retreat. Zen - you take Buddhism and chuck away the books, while trying to find the experiential basis of that object.

I'm asking OP about the definition of the term philosophy, i.e. what does the term philosophy indicate?

If someone teaches the 'art of living' then they also must teach the principle of how a certain kind of result in life turns out according to what kind of causes lie on what kind of ways of life. But meditation is not the way to solve problems in yourself and it is therefore not a way to learn the art of living. The proof is that there is no clear definition of what life is through anyone who teaches meditation. And I think it will be important for you to know that Gautama Buddha did not teach that meditation is the way to attain an Enlightenment.

If we discuss the matter of Zen, we need to admit the fact that a teaching cannot be helpful to living people if it doesn't contain any ways. The way means the process to get from the problem to the answer. There might be some answers in Zen but, like in the scriptures, there are no clear questions therein of how to distinguish between good teaching and bad teaching. As a result, many monks and lay people have placed their own words and thoughts into books and scriptures, and they contribute considerably to misguiding others. Despite the monks' and lay people's ability to convince others with words, there is a huge gap between their level of consciousness and that of a Tathagata.

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