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Mojito island is a mirage

37signals.com

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Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#11

Post by natrius »

jseifer wrote: post #5
jgrahamc wrote: post #2

In short, the bliss of selling and giving up your business is overrated. It’s a long life and it’s often best spent enduring the ups and downs of pursuing something of significance. Don’t be so eager to give it up. Hmm. Recent posts seem to be 37Signals attempting to rationalize their business model vs. recent sell outs for large amounts of money. I'll stand up and say I'd happily take a $40m pay out so that I could…

I'm not sure I totally agree with you on the 37Signals comment. I think it's actually refreshing to see that they are posting a counter point to the cash-out posts we've been seeing lately on other blogs. I doubt that some of the crew over at 37s would even have to work anymore and this could be their way of saying so. I could be way off base there, though. With all that said, I'd also be happy to take a huge pay out…

It'd be refreshing if they were well-argued counterpoints.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#12

Post by adw »

I want to work on interesting stuff. But...

Here's the fallacy. I don't believe that what our startup is doing is the only interesting stuff I could be working on. Some of the interesting things I'd like to do have no obvious, direct economic benefit. For example, there's a bunch of important work which needs doing in emergency technologies which isn't the kind of thing you can build into a scalable, VC-type business.

If I had the freedom from economic uncertainty to work on those problems, you bet I'd consider it.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#13

Post by cousin_it »

jodrellblank wrote: post #10

* It’s a long life and it’s often best spent enduring the ups and downs of pursuing something of significance. Don’t be so eager to give it up.* I don't want to give it up, I want to give up having to do it .

Unfortunately, doing is more intimately tied to having to do than many people realize. My login on Reddit is "want_to_want".

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#14

Post by jasonfried »

mikeryan wrote: post #7

In this thread http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=829583 Jason from 37signals said they'd have a post that FU money is a myth. I hope this isn't it. The point of FU money isn't that you'd actually quit everything and walk away. Its about the ABILITY to do so. Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay.

"Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay."

You're an individual. You can already make your own choices.

My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That someone else gives them the opportunity to do what they want to do. That someone else is the one who gives them the money. If you continue to think like this then that's exactly what'll happen - you'll be unable to make your own choices because you are waiting for someone else to make them for you.

I do hope to post more on this shortly.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#16

Post by calambrac »

jasonfried wrote: post #14
mikeryan wrote: post #7

In this thread http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=829583 Jason from 37signals said they'd have a post that FU money is a myth. I hope this isn't it. The point of FU money isn't that you'd actually quit everything and walk away. Its about the ABILITY to do so. Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay.

"Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay." You're an individual. You can already make your own choices. My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That someone else gives them the opportun…

My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else.

That makes no sense. Of course you need to get that opportunity from someone else: your customers, your family, your investors, or your buyer, whoever is handing you the money you need to meet your needs. At the end of the day, if someone else hasn't given it to you, you aren't getting it.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#17

Post by iamwil »

tptacek wrote: post #4

The bliss of knowing that your kids college tuition is fully paid for, no matter where they get accepted, is not overrated. Thinking like DHH indulges in this post is a luxury.

Will college tuitions be more than a million or two? Perhaps if the education bubble never bursts. Or if you have more than five kids.

Regardless, his article compares owning your own business with a million or two trickling in instead of $40 million (or more) all at once. The comparison isn't at all about the starving artist or inventor doing what he loves vs a big pay out.

If you're doing what you like and you're earning a mil or two a year (or well on your way), why sell out all at once for $40 mil? If your reason is other than getting to mojito island, he makes no claims.

But if your reason is because you want to get to mojito island, then Jason Fried is warning that it's probably not all it's cracked up to be.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#18

Post by aditya »

calambrac wrote: post #16
jasonfried wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay." You're an individual. You can already make your own choices. My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That someone else gives them the opportun…

My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That makes no sense. Of course you need to get that opportunity from someone else: your customers, your family, your investors, or your buyer, whoever is handing you the money you need to meet your needs. At the end of the day, if someone else hasn't giv…

Unless you're the government and can just print as much as you want. :-)

I think the 37signal's viewpoint is interesting, and the point they're trying to make is this, you can chose to do interesting stuff that will make you money while you work for the man.

It is _not_ easy. You have to come back from a long day of "meetings, politics, and code" and shut everything out and just create. Sometimes it'll be fun, sometimes it'll be downright boring and impossible seeming, but you own that time, and you can choose how to spend it. If you spend it watching TV then that is your choice. But, there are plenty of ways to make people pay you for stuff that you want to do if you just take the opportunity.

(Sorry if that sounds too guru-ish or self-helpy but thinking that way has made it much easier to rationalize working evenings and weekends for me.)

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#19

Post by replicatorblog »

tptacek wrote: post #4

The bliss of knowing that your kids college tuition is fully paid for, no matter where they get accepted, is not overrated. Thinking like DHH indulges in this post is a luxury.

Exactly.

DHH is confusing a life of relaxation with the security that comes with a big payday. It's less about sipping mojitos and more the ability to pay for college, mortgage, retirement, and relieving the stress all those things bring.

The tradeoff he proposes is a straw man: "Pull a few million from revenue each year or take a lump sum". Is this realistic in most cases? If Mint turned down Intuit, they could have bought Wesabe and reduced the value of Mint significantly. Given Mint's light revenue, how long would it have taken to achieve the same financial outcome? Would a VC ok salaries of millions per year in the near future?

I know the 37 Signals guys are anti-VC, but it is a real, lucrative, and demonstrable way to create wealth. I get that they dislike it, but I don't see the boot strapped software business being a real competitor. They do it, Craigslist does it, but not sure if there is the same portfolio of success in that system as in the VC system.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#20

Post by jasonfried »

calambrac wrote: post #16
jasonfried wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay." You're an individual. You can already make your own choices. My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That someone else gives them the opportun…

My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That makes no sense. Of course you need to get that opportunity from someone else: your customers, your family, your investors, or your buyer, whoever is handing you the money you need to meet your needs. At the end of the day, if someone else hasn't giv…

I was alluding to a big external event (investment, sale, IPO, liquidation), not to the day-to-day exchanges that are part of your business (selling product, offering services, etc). You can do anything you want on your own without the blessing of someone with a lot more money than you.
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