Twisted vs. Tornado: You're Both Idiots • Hacker News Board

Re: Twisted vs. Tornado: You're Both Idiots

#11

Post by apgwoz » Fri, Sep 18, 2009, 3:54 PM UTC

enobrev wrote: post #8

st3fan wrote: post #2

"""Anyway, when it comes to Twisted vs. Tornado for a Python web framework, I use Django. Why? Because it works, and my time is valuable.""" Who is the idiot here? I don't think the author understands the real power of async frameworks. You can't use Django for anything that requires a massive amount of longer running connections. This is an area where frameworks like Twisted or Tornado shine. Comparing the two is si…

While finding Ted's writing to be entertaining is a matter of taste, his point stands. To paraphrase: Twisted, while not being the nicest code in the world, works well. Tornado tries to do the same and may be marginally better. That time may have been better spent getting more visitors.

> That time may have been better spent getting more visitors.

Really? They did in fact just sell off to facebook, which has way more users than Twitter. Result: NET WIN.

edit: Not attacking your comment, as you were just paraphrasing. Just seemed like an obvious place to point out the obvious flaw in that.

Re: Twisted vs. Tornado: You're Both Idiots

#12

Post by axod » Fri, Sep 18, 2009, 5:36 PM UTC

finiteloop wrote: post #9

I think it is generally a bad idea for any entrepreneur to read things that Ted writes because if you surround yourself with the kind of blind negativity he perpetuates, you probably won't ever build anything interesting out of fear of attack. For all the YC folks here, develop thick skin and ignore shit like this. Ignoring all the anti-FriendFeed comments, which are ironic on many levels, we didn't build Tornado to…

'Comet' is sill largely misunderstood really. The idea that your webserver might have tens of thousands of HTTP connections all intentionally held open for a few minutes or until data is ready, to some people seems completely foreign. Doing all that in a single thread is also often a strange concept for them to grasp.

But, it's increasingly going to be the norm as the "Real Time Web!!!" emerges.

It's cool to have another open source option for people who want to do real time stuff.

Re: Twisted vs. Tornado: You're Both Idiots

#13

Post by natrius » Fri, Sep 18, 2009, 5:59 PM UTC

apgwoz wrote: post #11

enobrev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While finding Ted's writing to be entertaining is a matter of taste, his point stands. To paraphrase: Twisted, while not being the nicest code in the world, works well. Tornado tries to do the same and may be marginally better. That time may have been better spent getting more visitors.

> That time may have been better spent getting more visitors. Really? They did in fact just sell off to facebook, which has way more users than Twitter. Result: NET WIN. edit: Not attacking your comment, as you were just paraphrasing. Just seemed like an obvious place to point out the obvious flaw in that.

Not every sale is an indicator of success. Even if it were, more visitors would've made the company more valuable.

Re: Twisted vs. Tornado: You're Both Idiots

#14

Post by strlen » Fri, Sep 18, 2009, 6:12 PM UTC

Did Ted just confuse an MVC (Django) with a non-blocking web server?

Honestly, if that's your attitude ("don't take any risks by going after technical challenges, keep cranking out business logic"), you should be working for/attempting to start the likes of Siebel or SAP and not be working for/attempting to start a technology start-up. I don't mean that in a negative way: see http://philip.greenspun.com/business/startup-tips/

If you're building a product where you already know your customer and which features it needs, yes, don't take any technological risks. If you're making a product which has never been made before, you're already taking an enormous risk-- you should use every bit of your technical expertise to your advantage.

Re: Twisted vs. Tornado: You're Both Idiots

#15

Post by gthank » Fri, Sep 18, 2009, 7:52 PM UTC

strlen wrote: post #14

Did Ted just confuse an MVC (Django) with a non-blocking web server? Honestly, if that's your attitude ("don't take any risks by going after technical challenges, keep cranking out business logic"), you should be working for/attempting to start the likes of Siebel or SAP and not be working for/attempting to start a technology start-up. I don't mean that in a negative way: see http://philip.greenspun.com/business/star…

Actually, Tornado is both a nonblocking web server and a complete web framework. He didn't confuse them so much as focus on the part you're not interested in.