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Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#11

Post by Zigurd »

CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #5
Mithaldu wrote: post #3

> “We are afraid of Google,” wrote Mathias Döpfner, chief executive of Axel Springer By quoting him the article has directly made itself extremely suspect, since the publishing house Springer owns the biggest and worst fact- and politics-mangling tabloid in germany, Bild.

I don't know anything about Bild, and only know Springer as the publisher of expensive low-print-run sometimes-poorly-formatted academic books. But isn't this like saying that the Wall Street Journal isn't credible because the same company also publishes the New York Post?

Wrong Springer.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#12

Post by pippy »

plesner wrote: post #7

"Google competitors say: google is bad"

It's ridiculous to label Google a monopoly. People have to go out of their way to type in Googles URL, and anyone can type in something different. Yandex and baidu are valid non-US competitors.

Quality is the reason why people go back to Google. Compare this to the monopolistic practices of Mircosoft; who still viciously fend competitors from installing their software on OEM devices, amongst other horrible business practices. You could also label Apple or Oracle but in comparison they're not that bad.

It boils down to the fact that dodgy tax breaks are good, unless you're not getting a slice of the pie.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#13

Post by Mithaldu »

alex8022 wrote: post #9
Mithaldu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's like saying the Wall Street Journal would be suspect if the same company publishes FOX News, or the Daily Mail. Publications that openly lie, distort and abuse; on a massive scale; to serve their own political slant. Addendum: To clarify how terrible Bild is, consider this website: http://www.bildblog.de/ It is a blog dedicated to pointing out factual mistakes in the Bild publication. They have been running…

I'm not sure if this is deliberate or not, but until 2013, the Wall Street Journal and FOX News were owned by the same company.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation

I was not aware of that, but it leads me to ask a question:

I have seen first-hand that the thinking of Bild extends to other companies owned by Springer, companies that have nothing to do with what Bild does, like the price comparison portal http://idealo.de I have seen this in person when i attended job interviews for programming positions at those companies. That is my reason to not give anything or anyone connected to Bild, directly or indirectly, any iota of trust in their honesty.

So, what is your reason for giving WSJ any trust?

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#14

Post by virmundi »

spindritf wrote: post #10
ghostdiver wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lack of competitors for Google is bad

It is pretty embarassing that we completely rely on Americans for tech. And that's despite larger population and higher density, better Internet connectivity, free higher education in many places... I don't think it's Google's fault though.

I'm curious why Europe is in such a situation. There seems to be something pathological behind trend. I'm not sure what.

I've seen free higher education, or at least heavily subsided education. There is a great safety-net available too in most European countries. These two should make for a greater tech culture, at least abstractly.

Now I've worked with Americans and Europeans who had an MS or PhD in CS (full disclosure I started to get a MS, but had to stop because I couldn't do that, a marriage and 60 hrs a week for work). Most couldn't code worth a damn. They could probably discuss abstract CS concepts. They couldn't leverage those to solve a problem. It could be that the higher education is perhaps a hindrance to getting things done?

There could be a difference in how the two see failure. America seems to be open to it. Europe seems to be opposed. I think this is reflected in the history of the countries. America wanted the people who felt penned in by their countries hierarchy. Europe wanted those people gone.

Perhaps it's a combination of the two that's lead to the European problems. Education is seen as an end in itself, while the environment is such that people are told not to aim to high lest they melt there wings?

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#15

Post by Mithaldu »

virmundi wrote: post #14
spindritf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty embarassing that we completely rely on Americans for tech. And that's despite larger population and higher density, better Internet connectivity, free higher education in many places... I don't think it's Google's fault though.

I'm curious why Europe is in such a situation. There seems to be something pathological behind trend. I'm not sure what. I've seen free higher education, or at least heavily subsided education. There is a great safety-net available too in most European countries. These two should make for a greater tech culture, at least abstractly. Now I've worked with Americans and Europeans who had an MS or PhD in CS (full disclos…

The difference?

1. The internet was developed in the USA. 2. Language.

The first point simply means that whatever was done with the internet, the USA got the first crack at it. In american TV it's common now to tell people two tweet about the show they're watching, with hash tags on screen and whatnot. In germany, europe's technology powerhouse, it's still extremely common for a person to have never even heard of twitter, if they have internet at all.

Further: Anything you do in tech has profits that scale with the audience you can reach. Companies starting out in the USA are able to access all of the USA, all of the UK, and anyone from any other country who has learned one of the most wide-spread languages on the planet; with exactly zero special consideration at any point. Companies in Europe have two choices: Either they build with localization in the product from the start, which is hard, and provide both their local language and english, which also costs more; or they ignore the local market and work entirely in english; or they stick to their own language entirely and ignore the world.

In addition to that, due the great employee safety neat, which also means that employees have protection from things like capricious firings, taking risks is more expensive for european companies.

Whichever way they go, european companies either have to live with less growth potential, less ability to take risks, or spend more to get the same opportunities as their american counterparts.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#16

Post by CurtHagenlocher »

Zigurd wrote: post #11
CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anything about Bild, and only know Springer as the publisher of expensive low-print-run sometimes-poorly-formatted academic books. But isn't this like saying that the Wall Street Journal isn't credible because the same company also publishes the New York Post?

Wrong Springer.

So it is. Thanks for pointing that out!

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#17

Post by ars »

virmundi wrote: post #14
spindritf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty embarassing that we completely rely on Americans for tech. And that's despite larger population and higher density, better Internet connectivity, free higher education in many places... I don't think it's Google's fault though.

I'm curious why Europe is in such a situation. There seems to be something pathological behind trend. I'm not sure what. I've seen free higher education, or at least heavily subsided education. There is a great safety-net available too in most European countries. These two should make for a greater tech culture, at least abstractly. Now I've worked with Americans and Europeans who had an MS or PhD in CS (full disclos…

> There is a great safety-net available too in most European countries. These two should make for a greater tech culture, at least abstractly.

Quite the opposite actually. The better your life if you don't take a risk, the less likely it is that you will take a risk. And because people usually overestimate risk, risks are usually worth it.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#18

Post by mbesto »

ghostdiver wrote: post #8
plesner wrote: post #7

"Google competitors say: google is bad"

lack of competitors for Google is bad

Google has plenty of competitors. I think you forget that someone typing in a search isn't the customer opening their wallet up to pay for Google.

http://www.techdisruptive.com/2013/04/16/breaking-down-the-o...

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#19

Post by threeseed »

pippy wrote: post #12
plesner wrote: post #7

"Google competitors say: google is bad"

It's ridiculous to label Google a monopoly. People have to go out of their way to type in Googles URL, and anyone can type in something different. Yandex and baidu are valid non-US competitors. Quality is the reason why people go back to Google. Compare this to the monopolistic practices of Mircosoft; who still viciously fend competitors from installing their software on OEM devices, amongst other horrible business p…

Google is the default search engine in Safari, Chrome, Firefox on both mobile and web. Nobody is going out of their way to look for or type Google.com.

And not sure why on earth you are bringing up Yandex or Baidu which are both country specific engines with very strong ties to their respective governments.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#20

Post by threeseed »

mbesto wrote: post #18
ghostdiver wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lack of competitors for Google is bad

Google has plenty of competitors. I think you forget that someone typing in a search isn't the customer opening their wallet up to pay for Google. http://www.techdisruptive.com/2013/04/16/breaking-down-the-o...

Not in the search space they don't which is what EU companies have an issue with. It's Google with about 70%, Bing with about 20% and Yahoo with about 10%. The others are basically rounding errors.

When Google puts its own products before organic search results then that clearly is monopolistic behaviour i.e. attempting to extend dominance in one sector to another.

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