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Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

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Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#11
post #3

I did this before and ended up in court. If you're renting from a property management company (not an uncommon situation), chances are they have counsel, or are perhaps themselves attorneys. They're willing to play chicken. (We ended up settling to recover the security deposit). Style note: it might not be the best idea to repeatedly threaten legal action. First, as I learned recently on HN, doing that can create a p…

Agree that this letter (as what you have just indicated exactly) is a YMMV for sure.

As a landlord myself I didn't have to even read this letter to know that it would be worth my while to dispose of this problem by paying back the money. My take is "this guy has a lot of time on his hands and I don't".

Otoh, there are others who will fight a battle just for the sake of the battle and there are other battles that I do fight literally just for fun sometimes. It's like a game in a way.

In contrast I had a few commercial tenants (Physician practices) and had to withhold some money on move out for various issues. We wrote a long detailed 3 page letter knowing full well that the Physician wasn't going to take the time to question any of the information that we so completely presented. And they didn't. And we never heard any issues or complaints or a peep about the money that was not returned (we returned some escrow of course).

So once again, in business, it all depends on the circumstances and the particulars of each situation.

One other thing I will point out is in our state an individual can represent themselves in small claims court but a corporation can't. So right off the bat if you are suing a corp you have an advantage their unless they have in house council or want to send a particular message of "don't mess with us".

Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#12
post #4

As a landlord with 6 rentals, I would say that this is a good letter. Videoing the apartment is a good idea too (one I think I will do myself!) to record the state it is before and when you move out. I usually don't have to claim anything out of a deposit when a tenant moves out, with the exception of the really crazy tenants. Crazy like poo smeared walls and leaving the living room filled with garbage all over the f…

Every. Single. Landlord. I've leased from has treated the security deposit as a "13th month's rent". The last two places we rented, we even hired our own cleaning service when we moved out. We still got dinged things like $500 to mow the lawn.

Every. Single. Landlord. I've leased from has returned my security deposit in full without any hassles.

Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#13
post #9

Hey, tenants can be "assholes" as well. Here's a txt that I got two days ago from a tenant who hadn't deposited his rent (due on the 1st) by the 7th. (I waited two days before even saying it was late): [first he sends a picture of "the money"] Then this text: "Omg!!! I totally forgot to go to the bank on Friday and send it. I went to Boston over the weekend and it totally slipped my mind I was going to deposit it bef…

In the tenant agreement, consider including an acceptable late payment date, and a fine if not met (depending on local leasing law). My current place says rent is due on the 1st, acceptable to turn in as late as the 3rd (mainly to account for things like office holidays, Sundays when the office is closed, and the like), and any payment made later is subject to a $100 fee.

Having that helps break tenants down into well defined groups, I suspect, and the appropriate remedies; people who pay on time (or nearly; no worries there), people who don't and who end up paying extra (would be a pain, but an extra $100 a month helps with that), and people whose leases should be terminated for non-payment (because they've gone a month without paying).

Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#14
post #3

I did this before and ended up in court. If you're renting from a property management company (not an uncommon situation), chances are they have counsel, or are perhaps themselves attorneys. They're willing to play chicken. (We ended up settling to recover the security deposit). Style note: it might not be the best idea to repeatedly threaten legal action. First, as I learned recently on HN, doing that can create a p…

Great advice. My advice is to figure out a gradual escalation path with the legal option as the final (and unsaid) last step. Leave it unsaid because people will lawyer up the moment legal action is brought up and it short circuits any less adversarial (and expensive) escalation options.

I've been in a few difficult situations like this and was able to solve all these situations without threatening legal action simply by walking up the escalation path, saying what I was going to do and then doing it.

For example, I had a situation with a prospective landlord while I was in college who simply kept asking for more and more documentation while considering our application to rent (it was a largish apartment complex). After 5 visits, during which yet some new required document was needed, my wife and I decided to cancel the application and go elsewhere. I went in, told them we've decided to stop being jerked around and cancel the application, I simply asked for all of my information back (since it was sufficient for an unscrupulous landlord to commit identity theft on us). They refused.

So I started escalating.

- I found the parent company they worked for and sent a few (physical) letters requesting our information back.

- Then I filed a complaint with the BBB. This initiated a mediation procedure where the BBB contacts the landlord and tells them they're about to get a complaint and if our single criteria isn't met this complaint will reflect negatively on the apartment complex. The BBB is not a big thing, but lots of people do use it as a reputation marker and mediator. They didn't comply and got the negative complaint.

- I wrote another letter to the parent company and the landlord informing them of this escalation and again confirming our demand for our material.

- I contacted the county Consumer Protection Agency (not all counties have one) and filed a complaint and my demand for the return of our material. I again sent letters to the landlord and parent company informing them of this and providing them with copies of my correspondence with the CPA.

- I then escalated to the State Corporation Commission. Asked how to file a complaint and spent some time dealing with that bureaucracy, but eventually finding the right department. I filed the complaint, notified the offenders again. A couple weeks later the SCC contacted me back and said they'd received several complaints about the same place and about similar unscrupulous behavior and would be taking action against the landlord. They asked what I was looking for, I told them "just our application materials" and they were like "oh, is that all? that should be easy".

Two weeks later a package arrived in the mail with our stuff, not a single page missing. I contacted the parent company, landlord CPA and SCC to inform them the matter had been resolved.

It took a lot of time, but it kept options open to me and put the legal fight in other parties' hands. Going to the SCC instead of my lawyer, I found out that others had been in a similar situation and it aggregated and amplified my argument and rallied consumer protection law to my side instead of me going it alone. It also helped that I kept careful records and dates of every interaction and was able to build a record for the SCC to work off of on my behalf. It took time, but other than postage and paper supplies didn't cost me a penny.

A single hour with a lawyer would have cost me more.

Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#15
post #9

Hey, tenants can be "assholes" as well. Here's a txt that I got two days ago from a tenant who hadn't deposited his rent (due on the 1st) by the 7th. (I waited two days before even saying it was late): [first he sends a picture of "the money"] Then this text: "Omg!!! I totally forgot to go to the bank on Friday and send it. I went to Boston over the weekend and it totally slipped my mind I was going to deposit it bef…

In the tenant agreement, consider including an acceptable late payment date, and a fine if not met (depending on local leasing law). My current place says rent is due on the 1st, acceptable to turn in as late as the 3rd (mainly to account for things like office holidays, Sundays when the office is closed, and the like), and any payment made later is subject to a $100 fee. Having that helps break tenants down into wel…

That's already in there. The rent is due the 1st and on the 5th the penalty is due.

Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#16
> 9 out of 10 lawsuits in the world are now filed in the United States, which is also home to over 80% of the world’s lawyers

The source the article cites for this says the US has 1.2 million lawyers, so they are claiming the world has 1.5 million lawyers, and that there are only 300k lawyers outside the US. This is wrong:

   Germany: 139k lawyers [1]
   France:   46k [1]
   Greece:   36k [1]
   Italy:   121k [1]
   Spain:   114k [1]
   UK:      151k [1]
   Turkey:   55k [1]
   Brazil:  622k [2]
   Mexico:  215k [3]
   China:   200k [4]
   India:  1300k [5]
[1] http://www.ccbe.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/NTCdocument/table_n...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Brazil

[3] http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/plp/pdf/Mexican_Legal_Pr...

[4] http://www.china.org.cn/china/2011-12/26/content_24249504.ht...

[5] http://www.legallyindia.com/201302183448/Bar-Bench-Litigatio...

Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#17
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every. Single. Landlord. I've leased from has treated the security deposit as a "13th month's rent". The last two places we rented, we even hired our own cleaning service when we moved out. We still got dinged things like $500 to mow the lawn.

Every. Single. Landlord. I've leased from has returned my security deposit in full without any hassles.

Congratulations. You have better luck than I did, and than my renter friends did. Maybe it's the time period. We bought a house in 2004 (and again in 2005) and haven't rented since.

Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#18
post #9

Hey, tenants can be "assholes" as well. Here's a txt that I got two days ago from a tenant who hadn't deposited his rent (due on the 1st) by the 7th. (I waited two days before even saying it was late): [first he sends a picture of "the money"] Then this text: "Omg!!! I totally forgot to go to the bank on Friday and send it. I went to Boston over the weekend and it totally slipped my mind I was going to deposit it bef…

I've been a day or two late before. I've never been hassled. Unless this guy is r ed gularly late id give him atleast a week before you start bugging him. Your just making enemies imo.

Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#19

As a landlord with 6 rentals, I would say that this is a good letter. Videoing the apartment is a good idea too (one I think I will do myself!) to record the state it is before and when you move out. I usually don't have to claim anything out of a deposit when a tenant moves out, with the exception of the really crazy tenants. Crazy like poo smeared walls and leaving the living room filled with garbage all over the f…

when you videotape, video that day's newspaper to establish dates

Re: Letter I Used To Get Back 100% Of My Security Deposit From A Hostile Landlord

#20
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every. Single. Landlord. I've leased from has returned my security deposit in full without any hassles.

Congratulations. You have better luck than I did, and than my renter friends did. Maybe it's the time period. We bought a house in 2004 (and again in 2005) and haven't rented since.

We also bought a house in '04 and have lived there since; so I would have been renting at the same time period.

People are people; some honest, some dishonest, but geography could have something to do with it as well. We have rented solely in Iowa, and in general I have found that a higher percentage of people (certainly not all) in this region place great value on honesty and personal integrity.

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