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In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors

navytimes.com

11–20 of 103 posts

Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors

#11
Civilian hackers have a solid intuitive understanding and can use that to select, build, and modify whatever tools they please according to their intentions, and use them however they want to.

Do the military "cyberwarriors" even have local admin rights on their machines? Do they have the education necessary to think about systems and vulnerabilities and the requisite leeway to use that knowledge, or are they (as I would guess) "highly trained," where "trained" means "good at following a set of procedures"?

I'm not knocking that as part of military culture. I want the people in control of weapons and aircraft, etc. to be great at following orders and the procedures they were trained to follow, and do little else. The ICMB fleet is not a place for improvisation.

But computer security is. It's a creativity-driven field that moves quickly, evolves hourly, and requires intellectual agility. I would imagine that from a locked-down, out-of-date OS with a years-long procurement cycle to buy third-rate software from huge, blundering contractors and no leeway to try new things on a whim, it would be impossible to beat a team of educated, unencumbered civilians in a field like this.

Of course, that's just a caricature of military culture that I'm imagining, but can anyone speak to this?

Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors

#13
post #2

[deleted]

They certainly do; there's just no guarantee that the military will make use of them in an appropriate technical position.

Trans hackers and people who use illicit drugs most certainly do not, and until recently, LGB people.

Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors

#14

If we're trying to use uniformed military troops to hack servers remotely, we deserve to lose any 'cyber war.' They should be used to gain physical access to hardware and people, for the purpose of applying the xkcd decryption heuristic[1]. Leave the hacking to the experts. [1] http://xkcd.com/538/

I like xkcd as much as the next guy but we already had a perfectly serviceable metaphor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis

Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors

#15

If we're trying to use uniformed military troops to hack servers remotely, we deserve to lose any 'cyber war.' They should be used to gain physical access to hardware and people, for the purpose of applying the xkcd decryption heuristic[1]. Leave the hacking to the experts. [1] http://xkcd.com/538/

Those guys exist. But there are a whole host of reasons you'd want a force that could attack an enemy country's infrastructure remotely. As a chief example, it's far less inflammatory than boots on the ground.

Can you imagine the difference in reaction if we sent door-kickers on the ground to Natanz and smashed the Iranian centrifuges, rather than using Stuxnet?

The problem here is that there is a fundamental tension between hacking (or "advanced penetration testing" or "ethical hacking" or whatever) and the structure of the military.

The military relies upon rules and procedures to accomplish repeatable tasks at massive scale. Hacking is an individual or small collective endeavor that involves non-linear thinking and creative leaps.

Right now, they're trying to figure out how to work around that tension, and all we're seeing now are the early tests.

Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors

#16
post #3

This doesn't seem quite right. It says reservists. They may also have roles in civilian life, but they are also part of the Military. That seems a bit deceptive in the title.

If American reservists are expected to become a more critical component/dependency for US full-time cyberwarfare defensive or offensive capabilities, would this lead in any way to more time asked of reserve forces at least until internal military specialists are considered to be on par with their civilian and reservist counterparts?

I'm curious if reservists deemed to have critical skills would be called upon to act beyond an amount comfortable for them, considering that they typically already have full-time day jobs as mentioned in the article.

Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors

#18

Civilian hackers have a solid intuitive understanding and can use that to select, build, and modify whatever tools they please according to their intentions, and use them however they want to. Do the military "cyberwarriors" even have local admin rights on their machines? Do they have the education necessary to think about systems and vulnerabilities and the requisite leeway to use that knowledge, or are they (as I w…

Special Operations forces are given considerable leeway to customize weapons and adjust uniform standards to the situation. I think the "cyberwarriors" would/should argue that their machines are their weapons and so should have similar latitude.

Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors

#19

Civilian hackers have a solid intuitive understanding and can use that to select, build, and modify whatever tools they please according to their intentions, and use them however they want to. Do the military "cyberwarriors" even have local admin rights on their machines? Do they have the education necessary to think about systems and vulnerabilities and the requisite leeway to use that knowledge, or are they (as I w…

>It's a creativity-driven field that moves quickly, evolves hourly, and requires intellectual agility.

That does describe what is expected of military members in combat operations, so it isn't like the military shouldn't be able to apply that philosophy to this area.

I would think the issue is that the "cyberwarfare" group is new and so is being run like an ordinary technical unit, which means procedures and process out the ears and limited flexibility. The military could easily free them of that and let the unit run itself like a special operations unit.

Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors

#20

Civilian hackers have a solid intuitive understanding and can use that to select, build, and modify whatever tools they please according to their intentions, and use them however they want to. Do the military "cyberwarriors" even have local admin rights on their machines? Do they have the education necessary to think about systems and vulnerabilities and the requisite leeway to use that knowledge, or are they (as I w…

>It's a creativity-driven field that moves quickly, evolves hourly, and requires intellectual agility. That does describe what is expected of military members in combat operations, so it isn't like the military shouldn't be able to apply that philosophy to this area. I would think the issue is that the "cyberwarfare" group is new and so is being run like an ordinary technical unit, which means procedures and process…

>That does describe what is expected of military members in combat operations

Isn't the tactical playbook set On High? Obviously you need to react to a changing situation in combat, but wouldn't the standard responses to various situations be planned/tested/approved and then turned into training material by some central authority? Or is that sort of thing more up to officers in the field?

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