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Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

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Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#11

Seems like a logical extreme. Github is largely compatible with normal git. For instance, I've use other git services, like Bit Bucket, and not noticed much of a difference. While it is certainly for profit, it also offers some really useful tools that make hosting open source software and communicating with developers really easy. Github is useful for web developers in particular (I'm one) but I imagine other develo…

Agreed. He didn't list one practical reason for his decision. Then again, it's his project, so he doesn't really need to.

Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#12
post #4

It's fine if he doesn't like Github, but the condescending attitude towards people that don't mind leaving the terminal isn't doing him any favors.

Strawman.

The alternative to using the CLI is not Github. He dislikes the fact that a large % of new users of git are wholly dependent on a proprietary service.

This is a very understandable attitude if you are involved in the 'older' open source communities, where people still care about free software in the freedom sense, and do not simply treat open sourcing as a PR advantage.

Understand this: If you require contributors to your project to use Github/similar services, these users are filtered by those who are willing to accept an unreasonably coercive ToS - and yes, most ToSes of American cloud companies are coercive.

It is not a condescending attitude towards people. It is a deep caring for the principles of software freedom - freedom for both users and the people who make the software.

Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#13

Seems like a logical extreme. Github is largely compatible with normal git. For instance, I've use other git services, like Bit Bucket, and not noticed much of a difference. While it is certainly for profit, it also offers some really useful tools that make hosting open source software and communicating with developers really easy. Github is useful for web developers in particular (I'm one) but I imagine other develo…

Agreed. He didn't list one practical reason for his decision. Then again, it's his project, so he doesn't really need to.

Dude, bloated web browsers. And power and influence, bro.

Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#14

>>It absolutely sickens me to encounter users who seem to be incapable of using git without a proprietary communications tool. What is the proprietary communication tool which seems a must for git to work?Are they referring to SSH?or Something else am not aware?

I think he meant github, and the various features it offers, such as issues, pull requests, and threaded discussions thereof. I'm also not a fan of github's monoculture (or for that matter, of git's -- i rather like mercurial). I've only got one or two open-source projects out there, but I've encountered the "you are aware of github, right? why are you using " mindset before. Ideally, git or mercurial or some dvcs ga…

fossil does this already: http://fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/tip/www/index.wiki

It's likely not the only one out there though.

Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#15

Seems like a logical extreme. Github is largely compatible with normal git. For instance, I've use other git services, like Bit Bucket, and not noticed much of a difference. While it is certainly for profit, it also offers some really useful tools that make hosting open source software and communicating with developers really easy. Github is useful for web developers in particular (I'm one) but I imagine other develo…

Agreed. He didn't list one practical reason for his decision. Then again, it's his project, so he doesn't really need to.

"Github is proprietary communications tool which requires users to accept a terms of service and login."

Is that not a practical reason? Why should OSS be behind a ToS?

Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#16
For big projects like Linux or Python, they don't move to Github because they have their own system running for years. They just don't see the benefit and they find their existing mechanism effective. Many projects today still run on Bugzilla, mailing list and IRC.

For smaller projects the cost to migrate from older services like Google Code or even from Bitbucket to Github (or sometimes from Google Code to Bitbucket) is not trivia. I think one reason why Django still use its own system (Trac) rather than going for full Github is the difficulty to migrate old issues over.

So if the reason is "because we have a solid process in place" it is understandable. But actually, running your own system is also a lock-in but you just happen have full control of the system. You are lock in because you are still using that one software which may or may not continue to exist in a few years. If next decade you decided you don't want mailman to run your mailing list, instead you want to use MailFooBar, you will need to prepare migration. The only advantage is you control your stack, your data. Github can shut down next year all the sudden and you can lose everything (this is particularly true and dangerous for people whose software development cycle depends on small start-up services out there).

I think the attitude is a bit strong to potential contributors, even though I can see the reason why it's bad for an established project to consider any migration. It's a personal preference. If you are the main author and you don't want to move, you don't have to move. I don't have time to manage a full system. Heck, I don't have any open source code that is popular enough warrant me to think about running a mailing list or a buildbot farm. Github is perfect for me for just tracking and sharing code with the world.

Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#17
post #7

So... what about using Gitlab ( https://about.gitlab.com/gitlab-ce/ )? It's open source (MIT license), it's a (very polished) clone of Github's functionality and workflow, and it can be self-hosted. Someone saying "please use Github" doesn't (usually) mean they only want, specifically, Github. It means they want a tool with visual forking and merge trees, a code browser that can easily reference different branches an…

I wish Gitlab† had a way to do cross-instance merge requests (or more precisely real pull requests) for a completely decentralised experience.

† actually I wish Gitlab, Bitbucket and Github would support that, in an interoperable way.

Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#18
post #12
post #4

It's fine if he doesn't like Github, but the condescending attitude towards people that don't mind leaving the terminal isn't doing him any favors.

Strawman. The alternative to using the CLI is not Github. He dislikes the fact that a large % of new users of git are wholly dependent on a proprietary service. This is a very understandable attitude if you are involved in the 'older' open source communities, where people still care about free software in the freedom sense, and do not simply treat open sourcing as a PR advantage. Understand this: If you require contr…

I'm a Github user because of the convenience it affords, and I appreciate that. But if I had a mature open source project that wasn't trying to 'grow' as fast as possible, I'd move it off the service.

Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. He didn't list one practical reason for his decision. Then again, it's his project, so he doesn't really need to.

"Github is proprietary communications tool which requires users to accept a terms of service and login." Is that not a practical reason? Why should OSS be behind a ToS?

I think he specifically stressed he's a Free Software advocate. I think the distinction is important.

Re: Eric Wong on why Unicorn will not be hosted on GitHub

#20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Github is proprietary communications tool which requires users to accept a terms of service and login." Is that not a practical reason? Why should OSS be behind a ToS?

I think he specifically stressed he's a Free Software advocate. I think the distinction is important.

Well, for me at least, his advocacy for Free Software is irrelevant to his assertion that his open source project should not require a ToS and login to contribute to. It might explain his motivations, but it doesn't invalidate his position, imo. Others may agree or disagree with him (or I) on these things.
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