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Hate Your ISP? Maybe You Need Community Fiber

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11–20 of 53 posts

Re: Hate Your ISP? Maybe You Need Community Fiber

#11

I once lived in a city with a community run fiber network. It was pretty damn amazing. They still have great rates for what you get: http://www.sfcn.org/sfcn/internet/ I paid about how much the "Plus" plan cost, without TV, just for 3Mps down/1Mps up in the next two places I lived. It really does spoil you when you've had a proper ISP compared with the TWC/Comcast/Cox monopolies that run in other locales. Edit: and n…

I think it's telling that they list the cost of a static IP on their home page. My local provider doesn't even list it as a service; and if you find a rep who can sell it to you it's a "business-only" service AND costs you around 60 USD per month.

Re: Hate Your ISP? Maybe You Need Community Fiber

#12
I may be missing something but is the suggestion that local municipalities dig their last mile and run their own fiber?

That's ... Not likely to succeed surely? I assume the actual dig out is a specialised job, with no private hire market, the back haul ... To where and to whom? Do most towns know where their nearest telehouse/interconnect is? The support tasks are difficult - and scale pretty well, but not if you have no scale.

Ultimately this sounds like "hey let's build a public ally owned nationwide fiber network!" Why not start at that point?

Re: Hate Your ISP? Maybe You Need Community Fiber

#13
post #7

I live in a small village (2,000 people) and would love to implement something like this but the costs, as mentioned in articles about communities that have done it, seem prohibitive in the extreme (many millions of dollars). The article talks about underserved rural communities but how in the world do such places afford this (aside from the wealthiest locales, anyway)?

The main thing is economy of scale.

Fibre that has rolled out in Australia by the Government owned NBN Co averaged around $2300 per premises (for the access nework - you'd need to add on a bit for the transit backhaul and interconnection point with providers). We have a ridiculously high cost of labour too so I'm sure it can be done cheaper. So while it would cost millions, it's actually not that much when you spread it out across enough people. 2000 subscribers would probably be enough to get around that ballpark if most people were up for it.

Re: Hate Your ISP? Maybe You Need Community Fiber

#15
post #7

I live in a small village (2,000 people) and would love to implement something like this but the costs, as mentioned in articles about communities that have done it, seem prohibitive in the extreme (many millions of dollars). The article talks about underserved rural communities but how in the world do such places afford this (aside from the wealthiest locales, anyway)?

Generally its best if an existing utilities company, like power, can be included as a partner. And then you can use existing power line infrastructure to guide the optical cables.

Re: Hate Your ISP? Maybe You Need Community Fiber

#17

I may be missing something but is the suggestion that local municipalities dig their last mile and run their own fiber? That's ... Not likely to succeed surely? I assume the actual dig out is a specialised job, with no private hire market, the back haul ... To where and to whom? Do most towns know where their nearest telehouse/interconnect is? The support tasks are difficult - and scale pretty well, but not if you ha…

A common approach is to incorporate a municipally owned subsidiary that hires the appropriate expertise. That's how the electric and plumbing networks were built in many towns, for example. A number have since been sold off (turned into privatized utility companies), but some are still city-owned. Other cities have gone for a pooled model, where the each city owns their utilities, but rather than administer them directly, pays into a nonprofit organization that provides the service/maintenance, thereby gaining some economy of scale (e.g. http://www.ncpublicpower.com).

Re: Hate Your ISP? Maybe You Need Community Fiber

#18
Just as an aside on one of the points they try to make (not about residential internet access):

"Imagine the Director of Public Works using her smart phone to reschedule all the sprinklers in the city with just a few clicks."

This makes me really uncomfortable. I think infrastructure needs to be physically separated from the public networks. Everything else just asks for somebody to cause mayhem, un- or intentionally.

Re: Hate Your ISP? Maybe You Need Community Fiber

#19

I may be missing something but is the suggestion that local municipalities dig their last mile and run their own fiber? That's ... Not likely to succeed surely? I assume the actual dig out is a specialised job, with no private hire market, the back haul ... To where and to whom? Do most towns know where their nearest telehouse/interconnect is? The support tasks are difficult - and scale pretty well, but not if you ha…

A common approach is to incorporate a municipally owned subsidiary that hires the appropriate expertise. That's how the electric and plumbing networks were built in many towns, for example. A number have since been sold off (turned into privatized utility companies), but some are still city-owned. Other cities have gone for a pooled model, where the each city owns their utilities, but rather than administer them dire…

Ok - not a common UK model (at least I think not). But I guess it makes more sense.

Re: Hate Your ISP? Maybe You Need Community Fiber

#20
Community fiber optics is the way to go. In Bucharest, in 2000, when fiber was really expensive a small community, like a block of apartments, would get much better quality service by sharing a business type of connection than buying for each apartment a "home/personal" service. The initial cost is that someone needs to step up, build the infrastructure and start the sharing service. In Western countries this might be a little bit more difficult than it was in Bucharest in 2000 because of the regulation regarding wires, cable tunnels etc. However it is not impossible and the benefits of such a service in the community exceeds the initial pain of setting up the service.

In Bucharest, experience showed that once a community connected to internet via a dedicated fiber service, self maintained, the neighbouring blocks and adjacent residential areas start to press for connecting to the same service. Soon a network serving 30 families, grew to 100 then 500 or even more. A single connection became 4 load balancing the load. You had a problem with your connectivity? Just pick up the phone and call a guy 10 houses away from yours.

I may not be very accurate about the prices in 2000 but the first connection we had in our block was a 350 euro/ month + 150 set up fee for a 100Mbs bandwidth with no traffic limit. In my block 27 families out of 36 decided to join the network and the initial set up of the fiber + local ethernet infrastructure cost was split among residents. No filtering, no connection throttling, no interference. We were paying 15 euro per month to cover some maintenance cost and future failures of cables and routers. These 100 Mbps are not much they were 100 Mbps were steady. The thing is that when we upgraded our link to a 500 euro/month we got 250 Mbps. So bandwidth and cost don't scale linearly. The more people in your network the better the service.

Maintaining a large network can be a pain. However, if you give incentives to the sys admin, and the does a good job by deploying a network with little quarks, he can actually have a passive income without much of a hassle. Networks with more than 2000 families generally had a team of 1-3 sys admins taking care of the network full time.

We also had the traditional cable companies offering a package of TV + phone + internet based on coaxial cable. Their offering was so inferior to the "neighbourhood network". The large companies ended up by stepping up their game and offering similar quality services. They were actually struggling to keep up the pace. The local networks, created around 2004-2005 a backbone network which allowed every "neighbourhood network" to connect to the other networks via high speed 10Gbps fiber cables. This became later the ANISP a national association. Yes, the small networks were in the end bought by large companies but at least the standard was set high enough so that it cannot be rolled back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Romania

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