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Paypal has not been sending payment notifications to merchants

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11–20 of 77 posts

Re: Paypal has not been sending payment notifications to merchants

#11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It set off the ring detector. It looks like a false positive to me, so we'll turn that off. We also changed the title (from "If you use Paypal, you should know they aren't sending IPNs") to make it more neutral.

Ring detector?

A voting ring is when you submit something, and then tell a few dozen of your "friends" to vote for your submissions (and you agree to do the same for them). HN has heuristics which detect this sort of behavior, and penalizes the ranking of an article that looks like it's being voted up by a voting ring.

(Disclaimer: I haven't read the HN code, and have no idea how they actually detect such things.)

Re: Paypal has not been sending payment notifications to merchants

#12
post #4

Not sure if this is related to this particular case. From previous experience, PayPal will silently stop delivering IPNs if your webhook URL ever returns a non-200 status code for an extended period of time. It took us a fair amount of time to figure out that this was the cause of our issue -- the PayPal UI didn't indicate any problems and PayPal business customer support was unable to see the source of the problem e…

What about if it finds 301 or 302 codes (redirects)? I hope they don't count as a negative...

Re: Paypal has not been sending payment notifications to merchants

#13
This has always been a problem with Adaptive Payments, just not always so severe. Paypal's Express Checkout product has the best solution to this in that a payment cannot be completed without an explicit API call by your application. This makes the payment confirmation IPN redundant.

It is a more complex integration, but our product has been much more stable since we made the transition to Express Checkout.

This does not however prevent other problems with IPN delivery on refunds and other post order activity. Paypal's IPN infrastructure is pretty weak in general, very poorly documented and completely untestable.

Re: Paypal has not been sending payment notifications to merchants

#14

If you've ever sat down and looked at Paypal's APIs properly, for instance with a view towards a proper risk analysis and/or from-scratch integration, then this should not surprise you. I did this for the first time perhaps ten years ago, and here's what I found. Firstly, the degree of marketing bullshit that you have to push through just to get to the truth of the APIs is staggering . Secondly, they perform backflip…

Agreed. Over the past 9 years I've had to implement double, triple and end-of-the-month checking on PayPal to be sure that we have some reconciled idea of reality with respect to payments.

What's worse, their system essentially rewrites history over time. This means that rather than keeping a ledger of payment events, they change the dates and amounts depending of payment status / reversal /etc. Querying later in the week and the data is different. For the same charge.

I ended up keeping an event log of everything we ever get from them (IPN, API polling, reports) and synthesizing that into a current snapshot at query time. The code is riddled with comments saying, essentially, "this charge, then return, then recharge and failure means that the payment is OK".

Re: Paypal has not been sending payment notifications to merchants

#17
post #4

Not sure if this is related to this particular case. From previous experience, PayPal will silently stop delivering IPNs if your webhook URL ever returns a non-200 status code for an extended period of time. It took us a fair amount of time to figure out that this was the cause of our issue -- the PayPal UI didn't indicate any problems and PayPal business customer support was unable to see the source of the problem e…

Yea; we always, always return a 200. I have no idea about redirects but you can test that using the (very, very painful) sandbox. FYI, another lesson we learned the hard way: if you are testing your IPNs in the sandbox and you include a port number in the URL, the IPNs will silently fail. You also can't use IP addresses for IPN testing (again, they will silently fail) so I setup an A record in our DNS pointing to my local machine for testing.

Re: Paypal has not been sending payment notifications to merchants

#18
post #4

Not sure if this is related to this particular case. From previous experience, PayPal will silently stop delivering IPNs if your webhook URL ever returns a non-200 status code for an extended period of time. It took us a fair amount of time to figure out that this was the cause of our issue -- the PayPal UI didn't indicate any problems and PayPal business customer support was unable to see the source of the problem e…

IPNs are annoyingly difficult to use.

Some accounts simply will not send them until an IPN URL is set, even for transactions that include the notify_url in the request. You cannot even see the IPN history until you enter an IPN URL, even if it was used through the notify_url param.

IPNs that include UTF8 characters will not validate by default in most PayPal accounts. PayPal defaults to Win1252, translates the UTF8 content to Win1252, tells you it's Win1252 and then seems to validate the IPN against the original UTF8 data. I have never been able to validate a Win1252 IPN that had UTF8 content. I've tried iconv, stripping bits, and plain substitutions (ü -> u). Nothing seems to work. This seems to be getting better though.

For about 2 months last year they forgot to include a field that had to be added in order to verify the IPN. And you had to iterate through a few different values to see which one was correct. So we got a rash of support tickets asking why our customers were suddenly getting notifications of issues verifying PayPal purchases and were having to manually approve orders. I submitted a ticket after a day of dealing with the issue and got a response about 2 weeks after they fixed the issue. There was no indication of the problem on their status site.

The IPN verification service randomly returns INVALID for valid data or simply doesn't work. Sometimes IPNs are delayed.

Dealing with the PayPal APIs are far, far harder than their sales sites would have you believe.

Re: Paypal has not been sending payment notifications to merchants

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It set off the ring detector. It looks like a false positive to me, so we'll turn that off. We also changed the title (from "If you use Paypal, you should know they aren't sending IPNs") to make it more neutral.

Ring detector?

Sorry—a bit of local jargon. Fortunately gknoy has explained it.
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