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Time for programmers to grow a spine

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Re: Time for programmers to grow a spine

#11

Post by levosmetalo »

So, according to the author, everyone that doesn't want to work for a startup doesn't have a spine?

Maybe the real reason guy didn't join, although compensation is "good" is not that good? Maybe he saw the writing on the wall and didn't want to go for a "good" salary only to be forced to look for another job in next few months when funding money expire? Maybe he didn't like the prospect of working 60+ hours weeks? Maybe he just doesn't like 2x startup culture?

There are a million valid reason why someone wouldn't want to join startup, even for a "competitive" salary, and it has nothing to do with having spine or not. And he's not obliged to tell a real reason to anyone, so "too risky" is as good as an excuse as anything.

Re: Time for programmers to grow a spine

#12

Post by cahlansharp »

general_failure wrote: post #8

Ah, our daily dose of condescension. Maybe the author wants to 'inspire' but that's not what I feel after reading the article.

Sorry I didn't convey that well enough. I was mostly addressing this to programmers in my region who seem much more risk averse than many of my colleagues in other places (like SF) and yet complain about missed opportunities.

Re: Time for programmers to grow a spine

#14

Post by general_failure »

cahlansharp wrote: post #12
general_failure wrote: post #8

Ah, our daily dose of condescension. Maybe the author wants to 'inspire' but that's not what I feel after reading the article.

Sorry I didn't convey that well enough. I was mostly addressing this to programmers in my region who seem much more risk averse than many of my colleagues in other places (like SF) and yet complain about missed opportunities.

Fair enough. Did you miss mentioning the latter part (about the programmers complaining about missed opportunities)? Because with that in mind, the article reads a whole lot better. I might have missed it as well. If that's the case, I apologize!

Re: Time for programmers to grow a spine

#15

Post by BorisMelnik »

I feel like everyone who contributed to projects such as the Linux foundation are really making a difference. Being able to get affordable / free operating systems into 3rd world countries is huge. Even if you just contributed to some device driver or kernel code, that is something I'd be very proud of.

also: it might be time for some Tumblr users to brighten their font color as well.

Re: Time for programmers to grow a spine

#16

Post by opendais »

cahlansharp wrote: post #7
jimmaswell wrote: post #4

>I am amazed at how many people use those excuses and yet watch 15 hours or more of T.V. per week. T.V. isn’t inherently bad, but it is a distraction. If you work a 40 hour week and then watch T.V. (or video games, etc.) for 15 hours, you might as well be working in a startup. What the hell is wrong with you? "If you're spending your free time not working, you're distracted! You should be spending it working!" How ab…

Note that I didn't say you needed to work 100 hour weeks. I don't think that you should spend all your time at the laptop, in fact I specifically mentioned helping others and family as a really important investment of time. I just think talking yourself out of working extra hours when you waste a lot of those extra hours is just self deception.

You don't seem to understand that everyone probably needs those 15 hours of wind down time and doing something mindless [e.g. TV, video games] is how they do that.

It isn't self deception. Just like I know that I'm less productive at complex problems at 3am, I'm less productive if I'm doing it for 11 hours a day instead of 8.

You can become mentally exhausted to the point your work output is worthless because you make stupid mistakes that take longer to QA.

The cost of me making a mistake for 8 minutes? ~$10,000. The cost of me being properly rested, properly QAing things, etc. is not as expensive as the damage of a single mistake a year.

Re: Time for programmers to grow a spine

#17

Post by ironchef »

byoung2 wrote: post #2

what risk? You were going to join a funded startup with revenues out of the gate. You were being offered enough salary to live comfortably and enough equity to build a wonderful outcome for yourself and your family if your hard works pays off. Where is the risk in that? Were they profitable, or at least did they have a clear path to profitability? Monthly revenues of $20k is great, unless they are spending $50k per m…

Bingo. And how generous is a "generous equity package"? Is this the founder / management team's first rodeo? Because things could _look_ rosy but still be crappy compared to that "safe job". What if you join this hot new startup and things look great only to have them screw you in some manner? It happens.

"The only job security is the security you create for yourself." Sure. For some that might be to work for a startup. For some it might be to found a startup. For some it might be to work for a "safe" company doing something innovative (it happens).

Risk ultimately is weighing the probability of some amount of loss versus some amount of gain. It is subjective and historically informed. The OP stated "Think about it: when is the hardest in your life that you’ve worked? For me, it was when everything was on the line. Not just my job, but my income, my children’s schooling, and our groceries. I wasn’t working hard to impress my boss, get a promotion, or avoid a negative performance review. I was working hard to make ends meet." That's fine for him. I would rather not be in a position where my children's education is on the line. Does that mean I don't potentially hit the high gains the OP has? Maybe. Or perhaps others are making more informed decisions or slightly different risk-based decisions (maybe that key hire ended up going to a company who already has their series A or B, has better revenue / pipeline, and is going for a slightly lower equity package..that's still risky it's just not as risky what OP seems to be suggesting)

Re: Time for programmers to grow a spine

#18

Post by acuozzo »

cahlansharp wrote: post #7
jimmaswell wrote: post #4

>I am amazed at how many people use those excuses and yet watch 15 hours or more of T.V. per week. T.V. isn’t inherently bad, but it is a distraction. If you work a 40 hour week and then watch T.V. (or video games, etc.) for 15 hours, you might as well be working in a startup. What the hell is wrong with you? "If you're spending your free time not working, you're distracted! You should be spending it working!" How ab…

Note that I didn't say you needed to work 100 hour weeks. I don't think that you should spend all your time at the laptop, in fact I specifically mentioned helping others and family as a really important investment of time. I just think talking yourself out of working extra hours when you waste a lot of those extra hours is just self deception.

> I just think talking yourself out of working extra hours when you waste a lot of those extra hours is just self deception.

Why does "wasting time" matter when there's a 100% guarantee that we're all going to die and that the universe is going to come to an end?

Fuck it. I say: Do whatever is necessary for you to lead the life you're happy leading and then... well... lead that life.

If someone is happy doing the bare minimum necessary to spend the rest of his/her time stuffing his/her face with junk food and pigging-out on reality TV, then who are you to call that time "wasted"?

The universe is going down the toilet and, when it does, there will be nobody around to think "Hmmm... Calhan Whatshisface should have spent his time learning the @$$32 JS framework instead of watching Real Fartfaces of Silver Spring".

If working gets you off, then that's fine, but please step off your high horse and stop expecting everyone else to want to spend their life slobbing the proverbial knob of ProductiveWork™.

Re: Time for programmers to grow a spine

#20

Post by acomjean »

Life is full of decisions. Often times you make them blind eg you have no way of knowing how its going to turn out.

Sometimes you can predict, but as you look further into the future the less reliable those predictions are. If you went to college, you choose a major and a school, you have no idea how it will turn out. You will meet people who change your life, but you had no way to predict that when you met them. If you meet and becomes friends and work with Zuckerberg or Gates, you're life is going to be different. You had no way of knowing that "this MicroSoft company is going to be huge" when it was just starting out.

I went to work at a startup in College that failed. After that large corp with long term contracts, 10 years later layoffs started. I went back to a startup again. I have no regrets about any of it though.

Some of life is just luck. Don't not prepare though. That would be folly. Just be aware you can't control everything.

My general rule is that if you are pretty happy with the way things are stay the course, if your not happy, look for something you love and want to do and go in that direction. That goes for personal life and work life.

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