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Founders On Depression

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Re: Founders On Depression

#11

Post by DanBC »

johnward wrote: post #7
Domenic_S wrote: post #2

> First of all, not sure I would call depression mental illness. In fact, I am offended by the word. It’s like saying that having a fever when you get a cold is having a muscle illness. I think the majority of people out there are depressed at some point and have no idea because society deems depression as a “mental illness” and therefore as something foreign and strange that only mentally ill people have. Key to add…

If you've ever tried to get help you'll know that they just put you on whatever pill gives them the biggest kick back. When that doesn't work they put you on another, and another. I've been dealing with trying to get some help for years and I'm pretty sure they think I'm just making up shit at this point.

Things change. Now if you're in England the first line treatment should not be meds, but either a talking therapy or a combination of talking therapy and meds.

Re: Founders On Depression

#12

Post by wdewind »

johnward wrote: post #10
wdewind wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you've ever tried to get help you'll know that they just put you on whatever pill gives them the biggest kick back. I have to heavily disagree with you because I don't want your post to dissuade anyone who may be considering looking for help from doing so. It is not an intractable problem. I have tried to get help, and received it with zero medication. The key is to see a therapist (PhD - talk therapy) not a psy…

It's not that I want to avoid medication I just want whatever can help. I am talking about when you see your general practitioner and they prescribe you the usual antidepressants. A psychiatrist can prescribe much more powerful drugs and probably provide a better diagnoses too. I have not been referred to one of them. I've been to a clinal therapist and while it helped a little bit I'm still no where near what I feel…

Yeah, I don't mean to imply there is anything wrong with medication, but what you've found is that you've exhausted the limits of what your GP can do for you. So it's time to move on to a specialist. I would suggest starting with talk therapy simply because it's the less extreme response than psychiatry + drugs and it's always easier to escalate, but I really don't know you and I don't know what you're going through.

Going to a therapist is absolutely a major time and money commitment and those are the things that stopped me from doing it for way too long. My basic experience finding a therapist was that there were two kind: one that was in my network, and one that could see me at a reasonable time. I ended up just paying out of pocket and getting somewhat reimbursed later by the insurance company. It wasn't great, but it was totally worth it and I really wish I'd done it sooner.

I don't mean to sound pretentious, but this line:

> I'm still no where near what I feel is normal.

Tells me that you hardly scratched the surface of what therapy can offer you, at the very least in terms of perspective.

It sounds like you're in a rut, and you aren't making progress. Regardless of if you enter therapy, it's time to try something else. If you happen to be in NYC feel free to email me and I can set you up with a great therapist who really helped me. Either way, best of luck to you and keep up the good fight.

Re: Founders On Depression

#13

Post by kendalk »

badman_ting wrote: post #4
Domenic_S wrote: post #2

> First of all, not sure I would call depression mental illness. In fact, I am offended by the word. It’s like saying that having a fever when you get a cold is having a muscle illness. I think the majority of people out there are depressed at some point and have no idea because society deems depression as a “mental illness” and therefore as something foreign and strange that only mentally ill people have. Key to add…

> If your arm gets broken, you don't "suck it up" and say "that's life", you go to a doctor and get treated. It's no different when your brain gets broken. People say this sort of thing a lot, but it strikes me as unhelpful. The stigma against seeking help for mental health exists and is real, whether you think it's absurd or not. And that stigma often exists in the very people who need help, so just saying "oh you'r…

> "The stigma against seeking help for mental health exists and is real"

Not only is it a societal stigma, but it is nearly a form of accepted discrimination set in concrete.

Within the past year some states have been pushing to start collecting all mental health records. There are people who really who really do need to seek help, but actions like that will only make them afraid to come forward.

Re: Founders On Depression

#14

Post by incision »

badman_ting wrote: post #4
Domenic_S wrote: post #2

> First of all, not sure I would call depression mental illness. In fact, I am offended by the word. It’s like saying that having a fever when you get a cold is having a muscle illness. I think the majority of people out there are depressed at some point and have no idea because society deems depression as a “mental illness” and therefore as something foreign and strange that only mentally ill people have. Key to add…

> If your arm gets broken, you don't "suck it up" and say "that's life", you go to a doctor and get treated. It's no different when your brain gets broken. People say this sort of thing a lot, but it strikes me as unhelpful. The stigma against seeking help for mental health exists and is real, whether you think it's absurd or not. And that stigma often exists in the very people who need help, so just saying "oh you'r…

>'The stigma against seeking help for mental health exists and is real, whether you think it's absurd or not.'

Absolutely true.

Not just stigma, but plain discrimination. Good luck getting an interview if you list Haloperidol [1] under 'Current Medications'.

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloperidol

Re: Founders On Depression

#15

Post by jmathai »

wdewind wrote: post #8
mikegioia wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely agree with you. He seems to be perpetuating the notion that depression is somehow a character flaw. There are so many different reasons why people get depressed that I think it clouds the distinction between general sadness and actual psychological depression. The only thing I found to truly help was pure empathy from any combination of loved ones/professionals.

No, not as a character flaw, but as a reasonable response to a huge amount of stress. I still agree that he is dangerously ambiguous and mostly incorrect though.

It's one thing to have external factors such as stress cause depression. Most of what I read concerning "founder depression" is along those lines. It sucks and isn't something to take lightly, even if some view it as self inflicted.

But there's an entirely different class of mental illness that's closely tied to depression; those caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Stress often amplifies the symptoms (think of people with multiple personality disorder, schizophrenia, etc) but isn't the root cause.

I imagine the founder you're quoting has never had a close friend or family member that suffers from the latter. I get that they might not understand but it's unfortunate they hit "depression" with a sledge hammer by generalizing it so much.

Re: Founders On Depression

#16

Post by jwallaceparker »

At first glance at the title I thought this was going to be quotes from Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Sam Adams, John Hancock and so on about how to cope with depression.

That would've been great. I still think it's a good idea for an article.

Re: Founders On Depression

#17

Post by wuliwong »

Domenic_S wrote: post #2

> First of all, not sure I would call depression mental illness. In fact, I am offended by the word. It’s like saying that having a fever when you get a cold is having a muscle illness. I think the majority of people out there are depressed at some point and have no idea because society deems depression as a “mental illness” and therefore as something foreign and strange that only mentally ill people have. Key to add…

I think get what you are trying to say, and as someone who has dealt with panic disorder, severe depression and addiction in my life, I certainly am glad that there is support, that people take it seriously and that there were some people that didn't judge me along the way. That being said, the way you are express your arguments yields some unintended consequences in logic.

I believe that your implication that a broken arm and a "broken" brain are synonymous is over simplistic if not outright wrong. There is very little debate as to the proper functioning of a healthy arm and how to return a broken one to that state. Obviously this is not true for "mental" issues. The idea that all "mental" issues are a result of something "broken" in the brain is something very much up for debate.

There are serious, fundamental open questions in neuroscience related to consciousness, memory and disease. Also the assumption that our "mental makeup" is entirely physical without any "meta-physical" component certainly isn't known. That last part maybe a bit outside the scope of neuroSCIENCE but it doesn't mean it is incorrect. I actually got my Ph.D. studying problems in neuroscience and I often found myself pondering some pretty strange ideas as possible explanations for observed phenomenon.

Re: Founders On Depression

#18

Post by wuliwong »

badman_ting wrote: post #4
Domenic_S wrote: post #2

> First of all, not sure I would call depression mental illness. In fact, I am offended by the word. It’s like saying that having a fever when you get a cold is having a muscle illness. I think the majority of people out there are depressed at some point and have no idea because society deems depression as a “mental illness” and therefore as something foreign and strange that only mentally ill people have. Key to add…

> If your arm gets broken, you don't "suck it up" and say "that's life", you go to a doctor and get treated. It's no different when your brain gets broken. People say this sort of thing a lot, but it strikes me as unhelpful. The stigma against seeking help for mental health exists and is real, whether you think it's absurd or not. And that stigma often exists in the very people who need help, so just saying "oh you'r…

I agree. I've battled with all types of "mental problems" throughout my life and honestly, the poeple around me that cared accepted that I needed help well before I did.

Re: Founders On Depression

#19

Post by wdewind »

jmathai wrote: post #15
wdewind wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not as a character flaw, but as a reasonable response to a huge amount of stress. I still agree that he is dangerously ambiguous and mostly incorrect though.

It's one thing to have external factors such as stress cause depression. Most of what I read concerning "founder depression" is along those lines. It sucks and isn't something to take lightly, even if some view it as self inflicted. But there's an entirely different class of mental illness that's closely tied to depression; those caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Stress often amplifies the symptoms (think o…

It's complicated. You could argue stress is always the root cause and what varies is simply one's reaction to the stress. I feel deeply uncomfortable drawing a line between people who have "real depression" and "stress caused" depression. You wouldn't make the same comparison with people who have less advanced degrees of cancer, and yet those too can be stress induced, and thus viewed as "self inflicted."

Re: Founders On Depression

#20

Post by jeffreyrogers »

johnward wrote: post #7
Domenic_S wrote: post #2

> First of all, not sure I would call depression mental illness. In fact, I am offended by the word. It’s like saying that having a fever when you get a cold is having a muscle illness. I think the majority of people out there are depressed at some point and have no idea because society deems depression as a “mental illness” and therefore as something foreign and strange that only mentally ill people have. Key to add…

If you've ever tried to get help you'll know that they just put you on whatever pill gives them the biggest kick back. When that doesn't work they put you on another, and another. I've been dealing with trying to get some help for years and I'm pretty sure they think I'm just making up shit at this point.

I'm in the United States and want to comment to say your experience doesn't have to be this way.

In the past I've had severe depression and anxiety attacks and tried both medication and therapy. SSRI's were great for relatively quick relief from a lot of the problems I was dealing with, but the biggest benefit came from lifestyle changes and talking to a psychologist/therapist. It's important to realize that their are two different types of doctors you can see when dealing with depression: 1. a psychiatrist (MD), who primarily treats symptoms by prescribing medication, and 2. a therapist/psychologist (PhD), who primarily works with things such as CBT or other forms of therapy, and may recommend you to a psychiatrist if s/he thinks you'd benefit from medicine.

I'm fortunate that now I have a very happy and successful life, but getting to this point required a lot of hard work, honesty with myself about things I was doing that were setting me back, and large lifestyle changes.

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