Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking • Hacker News Board

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#11

Post by DougBTX » Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 7:40 PM UTC

trjordan wrote: post #9

gruseom wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no issue here, merely semantic confusion: we're using the phrase "negative thinking" to mean different things.

Think of it this way: planning for negative scenarios is generally implies that you're willing to deal with them. To be willing to deal with them, you probably think that you're capable of dealing with them. Even though dealing with negative situations isn't kittens-and-puppies happy, it is solidly optimistic. That's the kind of positive thinking that helps you.

Good summary.

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#12

Post by jdavidson » Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 8:04 PM UTC

Any one have links to the evidence mentioned for the effect of positive thinking on performance?

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#13

Post by stse » Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 8:31 PM UTC

This is a great post and should almost be a sticky here on Hacker News. I've been involved in some performance oriented activities both in school, business, sports and the military. I have never seen anyone succeed by focusing on the problems.

When focusing on problems or prematurely on the solution, you'll get anxious and start seeing problems everywhere. The planning process will get more important then the actual implementation and you'll focus on the smallest problems. Even things that will go away by themselves.

Then without knowing it you'll be one of those people who asks "why?" instead of "how?". And I, like most, don't want to be around a person like that.

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#14

Post by Alex3917 » Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 9:00 PM UTC

jdavidson wrote: post #12

Any one have links to the evidence mentioned for the effect of positive thinking on performance?

Most of the research on this comes from the field of educational psychology. The specific term that you would search is 'self-efficacy'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-efficacy

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#15

Post by radioactive21 » Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 9:01 PM UTC

bkovitz wrote: post #10

What is "positive thinking"?

it is thinking positive.

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#16

Post by stse » Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 9:11 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #14

jdavidson wrote: post #12

Any one have links to the evidence mentioned for the effect of positive thinking on performance?

Most of the research on this comes from the field of educational psychology. The specific term that you would search is 'self-efficacy'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-efficacy

Also "Performance Psychology" which as its origin in sports.

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#17

Post by ektimo » Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 10:45 PM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #3

This piece is surprisingly profound. Here is the key insight: Negative thinking feels good. I think this is exactly right. A compounding factor is habit. Once you've being doing the same thing over and over, it feels good to keep doing it and uncomfortable not to. Another reason why negative thinking feels good is that it's passive, and it's easier to be passive than active.

Negative thinking feels bad. Maybe he's never actually experienced it. A better explanation is needed.

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#18

Post by bkovitz » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 1:50 AM UTC

radioactive21 wrote: post #15

bkovitz wrote: post #10

What is "positive thinking"?

it is thinking positive.

The term is just so damned vague. If I buy a stock and think the price will go down, is that "negative thinking"? If I'm miserable where I work, would it be "positive thinking" to tell myself that I like it there?

My current understanding is that "positive thinking" is a lot like "having an open mind": social gamesmanship where you say "I disagree with you" but in a way designed to make the other person look bad, at least in the eyes of people who don't both to find out what the words are supposed to mean.

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#19

Post by gruseom » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 7:43 AM UTC

ektimo wrote: post #17

gruseom wrote: post #3

This piece is surprisingly profound. Here is the key insight: Negative thinking feels good. I think this is exactly right. A compounding factor is habit. Once you've being doing the same thing over and over, it feels good to keep doing it and uncomfortable not to. Another reason why negative thinking feels good is that it's passive, and it's easier to be passive than active.

Negative thinking feels bad. Maybe he's never actually experienced it. A better explanation is needed.

The statements "negative thinking feels bad" and "negative thinking feels good" are not contradictory at all, though they may appear so. The way in which it feels bad is obvious, but the way in which it feels good is not, and takes self-observation and honesty to detect. The effort is well worth it, though, because it provides a way out of the conundrum. If I'm only aware of how they feel bad, then negative thoughts are something that happens to me; but once I become aware that they also feel good, I see them as something that I'm doing (or at least acceding to), and I can withdraw that participation.

My experience has been that one has to persist with this concept until the initial indignation ("how dare you say that I'm enjoying this pain") dies down. Then a whole new array of psychological options opens up. It's fascinating. But challenging.

Re: Seth's Blog: The problem with positive thinking

#20

Post by jdavidson » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 7:55 PM UTC

stse wrote: post #16

Alex3917 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the research on this comes from the field of educational psychology. The specific term that you would search is 'self-efficacy'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-efficacy

Also "Performance Psychology" which as its origin in sports.

Thanks!