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A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

nanex.net

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Re: A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

#11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to the router just entering the exchange, type: tc qdisc change dev eth0 root netem delay 100ms 10ms Problem solved.

what does this do? (non-finance guy here)

The command introduces a delay of between 100 and 10ms to every packet. Screwing up trades that rely on being the fastest.

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networ...

Re: A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

#12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to the router just entering the exchange, type: tc qdisc change dev eth0 root netem delay 100ms 10ms Problem solved.

what does this do? (non-finance guy here)

Its a bit of a joke. Its a network thing, not a finance thing. What it does is adds a delay and more importantly, a bit more random delay to the time it takes the order to reach the exchanges server. Once you add in the non-determinism, HFT basically falls apart because you can't take your truckload of cash and buy yourself a place in a datacenter that's 2ms closer to the exchange and front-run everyone.

It would be a wonderful thing to see all of those millions these guys have "invested" shaving a millisecond or two off their transaction times laid waste by a single command.

Re: A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

#13

You cannot defend frontrunning of a market. If I ask for X at Y. Someone else shouldn't have the facility to buy it based on my own trade signal and try sell it back to me. It is mindblowingly simple theft. The arguments for liquidity do not hold. There is some fascinating cognitive dissonance when it comes to the HFT industry.

That's not what's happening here. Traders are arbitraging and reacting to public trades and orders on multiple markets. If you walk through a physical market where 8 apple carts are lined up, all selling apples for $1, buy every apple at cart #1, then buy every apple at cart #2, and so on, would you be surprised to find the price moving up or sellers stepping away as you approached carts #7 and #8? The same thing hap…

If buyers were to time divide their order and time it so the request ended up at each exchange at the exact same millisecond, would this prevent others from reacting to the big trader?

Re: A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to the router just entering the exchange, type: tc qdisc change dev eth0 root netem delay 100ms 10ms Problem solved.

what does this do? (non-finance guy here)

Pretty sure he's suggesting adding a non-determistic lower bound to trade frequencies at network boundary

Re: A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

#15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does this do? (non-finance guy here)

Its a bit of a joke. Its a network thing, not a finance thing. What it does is adds a delay and more importantly, a bit more random delay to the time it takes the order to reach the exchanges server. Once you add in the non-determinism, HFT basically falls apart because you can't take your truckload of cash and buy yourself a place in a datacenter that's 2ms closer to the exchange and front-run everyone. It would be…

This "solution" will only make it harder for regular folks to execute orders, since HFTs will beat the randomness by shooting multiple orders through multiple order gateways.

Re: A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

#17

You cannot defend frontrunning of a market. If I ask for X at Y. Someone else shouldn't have the facility to buy it based on my own trade signal and try sell it back to me. It is mindblowingly simple theft. The arguments for liquidity do not hold. There is some fascinating cognitive dissonance when it comes to the HFT industry.

That's not what's happening here. Traders are arbitraging and reacting to public trades and orders on multiple markets. If you walk through a physical market where 8 apple carts are lined up, all selling apples for $1, buy every apple at cart #1, then buy every apple at cart #2, and so on, would you be surprised to find the price moving up or sellers stepping away as you approached carts #7 and #8? The same thing hap…

"If you walk through a physical market where 8 apple carts are lined up, all selling apples for $1, buy every apple at cart #1, then buy every apple at cart #2, and so on, would you be surprised to find the price moving up or sellers stepping away as you approached carts #7 and #8?"

If some guy had a business where his sole service was to sit in the apple cart market waiting to front run me and then immediately sell the apples right back to me, I'd be surprised and super pissed.

Re: A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

#18

You cannot defend frontrunning of a market. If I ask for X at Y. Someone else shouldn't have the facility to buy it based on my own trade signal and try sell it back to me. It is mindblowingly simple theft. The arguments for liquidity do not hold. There is some fascinating cognitive dissonance when it comes to the HFT industry.

That's not what's happening here. Traders are arbitraging and reacting to public trades and orders on multiple markets. If you walk through a physical market where 8 apple carts are lined up, all selling apples for $1, buy every apple at cart #1, then buy every apple at cart #2, and so on, would you be surprised to find the price moving up or sellers stepping away as you approached carts #7 and #8? The same thing hap…

If you stood in front of all of those carts simultaneously and said "I'll take all of your stock at the advertised price", I'm guessing you'd be a bit peeves if someone else pushed in front of you and started buying some of the stock (the equivalent of the 1,570 shared bought by some random buyer at the exact point this order was put in).

Re: A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

#19

You cannot defend frontrunning of a market. If I ask for X at Y. Someone else shouldn't have the facility to buy it based on my own trade signal and try sell it back to me. It is mindblowingly simple theft. The arguments for liquidity do not hold. There is some fascinating cognitive dissonance when it comes to the HFT industry.

The trader wanted to buy 20 000 shares at 17.38, that's a bit less than 350 000 dollars, certainly not pocket change. In fact, that was more than any individual exchange could provide, and barely enough with all exchanges combined. You would expect the price to go up with such high demand and limited supply. And indeed you see that, when he starts trading on BOST, other market participants update their price in other markets by cancelling their orders and inserting them at a higher price.

From the article:

>Also note how the cancellations rotate through many different exchanges. That's one sure way to throw off, confuse, stall a smart order router.

Or you know, because it's multiple market participants that are updating their prices.

>Someone else shouldn't have the facility to buy it based on my own trade signal and try sell it back to me.

What? If you're the owner of a bakery and you see a guy buying every single bread that your competitor is selling, wouldn't you increase the price of your own bread in case this guy comes to you?

Re: A detailed exposé on how the market is rigged from a data-centric approach

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what's happening here. Traders are arbitraging and reacting to public trades and orders on multiple markets. If you walk through a physical market where 8 apple carts are lined up, all selling apples for $1, buy every apple at cart #1, then buy every apple at cart #2, and so on, would you be surprised to find the price moving up or sellers stepping away as you approached carts #7 and #8? The same thing hap…

If you stood in front of all of those carts simultaneously and said "I'll take all of your stock at the advertised price", I'm guessing you'd be a bit peeves if someone else pushed in front of you and started buying some of the stock (the equivalent of the 1,570 shared bought by some random buyer at the exact point this order was put in).

That is very true, but nobody is pushing through here. The trader clearly didn't send his orders to all exchanges at the same time since other traders had time to update their prices. The article talks about milliseconds when arbitraging happens in microseconds.
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