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PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

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Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#11
post #4

Why doesn't some company with a frozen account by paypal, sue the shit out paypal???

Paypal enjoys many of the protections of banks (even FDIC insurance), but skirts many of the regulations. Namely, the regulation that it is illegal to withhold your customers money.

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#12
post #7
post #4

Why doesn't some company with a frozen account by paypal, sue the shit out paypal???

I'd love to see that happen, but I imagine if you read the Terms and Conditions they've got some clause in there that allows them to do this. I wonder if there's anything in there about the duration of the freeze, how long they have until they return the money to its original owners, and whether they have to pay any interest on the money when it's frozen. I don't really know much about this sort of thing, but I'm gue…

And what if they have a clause in their ToC that they are allowed to kill you, are they allowed to kill you then? ...

Paypal is convenient and well known, that's all. They are in fact expensive and extremely unrecommended for anything else than personal low-frequency convenient payments imho.

just my 2 cents.

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#13
While I know nothing about the details of this case, the vast majority of these cases seem to be due to mistakes on how the companies set up their PP accounts. PP needs to deal with fraud, and it can be hard to tell the difference between donations for a product to be launched sometime in the far future and a scam. I think the best practice is to get in touch with PP _before_ accepting nearly $300k and make sure they're expecting the money and understand the situation.

Statements like "PayPal, which is ultimately owned by Glenn Greenwald backer Pierre Omidyar ..." which are pretty obviously false (Omidyar owns <10% of the company) make me further skeptical of this article.

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#15
post #4

Why doesn't some company with a frozen account by paypal, sue the shit out paypal???

Paypal enjoys many of the protections of banks (even FDIC insurance), but skirts many of the regulations. Namely, the regulation that it is illegal to withhold your customers money.

Can you point out which regulation actually says that, and how it applies to things that are actually comparable to Paypal, such as a credit card merchant account?

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#16
post #4

Why doesn't some company with a frozen account by paypal, sue the shit out paypal???

I've often wondered this too. It seems to me that more times than not Paypal freezes an account on a "whim". Almost like they are unsure if they would or wouldn't face legal ramifications later so they just freeze it to be safe. People backlash they unfreeze but at the end of the day they have suffered nothing except people being mad at them...

It seems to you like that because you never hear about the many instances where Paypal freezes accounts for actually fraudulent transactions.

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#17
The thing that bothers me is that a company would consider itself the enforcer of The Law. While it is incumbent on any company to obey said Law, it's the government's job to enforce it.

So, rather than shut down an account, since PayPal doesn't necessarily have the details, they should just bundle up what they think is the incriminating evidence, toss it over the wall to the US Attorney and ask "This legal, bro?" If yes, done. If not, then the government can toss it back over the wall and say "Shut it down, dawg."

We might have better-considered laws if the government actually had to deal with half the consequences of passing said laws.

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#18
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paypal enjoys many of the protections of banks (even FDIC insurance), but skirts many of the regulations. Namely, the regulation that it is illegal to withhold your customers money.

Can you point out which regulation actually says that, and how it applies to things that are actually comparable to Paypal, such as a credit card merchant account?

Admittedly, my comment was made in haste. But I was fortunate enough to turn up something at least tangentially related:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedited_Funds_Availability_Ac...

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#19
post #4

Why doesn't some company with a frozen account by paypal, sue the shit out paypal???

Because they have agreed to the Ts&Cs which allow PayPal to do this under the relevant circumstances?

While they could potentially argue the circumstances are not correctly interpreted or were not legal to dictate and agree to in the first place (and therefore not enforcible), can they afford the time and legal costs to do so especially given how long Paypal (or other large organisation they are in a similar position with) can afford to let things drag on for?

Re: PayPal freezes ProtonMail's account due to legal concerns

#20
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see that happen, but I imagine if you read the Terms and Conditions they've got some clause in there that allows them to do this. I wonder if there's anything in there about the duration of the freeze, how long they have until they return the money to its original owners, and whether they have to pay any interest on the money when it's frozen. I don't really know much about this sort of thing, but I'm gue…

And what if they have a clause in their ToC that they are allowed to kill you, are they allowed to kill you then? ... Paypal is convenient and well known, that's all. They are in fact expensive and extremely unrecommended for anything else than personal low-frequency convenient payments imho. just my 2 cents.

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