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Atlas Smug | Alex Payne | Jacobin

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Re: Atlas Smug | Alex Payne | Jacobin

#11

Post by vegancap »

ontoillogical wrote: post #8
vegancap wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are literally hundreds of alternatives sprouting from the ground as raw materials and services become cheaper and cheaper. Amazon certainly hasn't monopolised on the computational power market. Increasingly, much of the computational power is becoming decentralised anyway with the blockchain emerging in new and creative ways

Amazon isn't the only game in town, but I would argue that most computational power, like any means of production, is owned by Capital.

Yes, it's a paid service, because they used their initiative, knowledge and finance to physically build their data centers. If that's what you are referring to by 'owned by Capital'

Re: Atlas Smug | Alex Payne | Jacobin

#12

Post by vegancap »

mindcrime wrote: post #10
vegancap wrote: post #7

The premise of this article is entirely wrong. We haven't had a 'massive deregulation', taxes across the west have rose, as has regulation and centralisation. THAT is why conditions for workers have declined. THAT is why the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer.

Yeah, there may have been some limited de-regulation here and there, but we are no where near an actual free-market situation. For somebody to come along and decry de-regulation as the problem, in this environment, is absolutely absurd.

Exactly! I've read a lot of posts recently claiming the 'free-market' is the problem. Well, I can't think of many countries in the world who have a currency not owned by the state, a banking system entirely independent of the state, a country with a real, none-fiat currency, a country with minimum to no forms of tax etc. It just isn't the case, and it's not heading that way by and means either. I'm not sure where people are getting this from

Re: Atlas Smug | Alex Payne | Jacobin

#13

Post by [deleted] »

vegancap wrote: post #7

The premise of this article is entirely wrong. We haven't had a 'massive deregulation', taxes across the west have rose, as has regulation and centralisation. THAT is why conditions for workers have declined. THAT is why the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer.

[deleted]

Re: Atlas Smug | Alex Payne | Jacobin

#14

Post by ontoillogical »

vegancap wrote: post #11
ontoillogical wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon isn't the only game in town, but I would argue that most computational power, like any means of production, is owned by Capital.

Yes, it's a paid service, because they used their initiative, knowledge and finance to physically build their data centers. If that's what you are referring to by 'owned by Capital'

I think if you put finance at the top of the list, we'd be in agreement.

Re: Atlas Smug | Alex Payne | Jacobin

#15

Post by gress »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #9
3pt14159 wrote: post #2

Imagine it's 1940 or 1950 and someone starts asking "Who is going to own the computers?" The answer is that everyone is going to own different robots. The whole point is that a robot is going to be so much more efficient than a human, that for less than 1/50th the cost of a median house a human could buy a robot that could create enough economic production for his whole life. There will be challenges, since many peop…

> Imagine it's 1940 or 1950 and someone starts asking "Who is going to own the computers?" An iPhone is a good example of a computer. Did you see this paragraph: "I paid for my iPhone in full, but Apple owns the software that runs on it, the patents on the hardware inside it, and the exclusive right to the marketplace of applications for it. If I want to participate in their marketplace, Apple can arbitrarily reject…

This seems like a moot compliant. You can always buy a rootable android phone, or a Firefox phone.

This is like complaining that your newspaper already has ink on it stating someone else's opinion. If you want it to be blank, buy a pad from an art store.

Re: Atlas Smug | Alex Payne | Jacobin

#16

Post by bryanlarsen »

vegancap wrote: post #12
mindcrime wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there may have been some limited de-regulation here and there, but we are no where near an actual free-market situation. For somebody to come along and decry de-regulation as the problem, in this environment, is absolutely absurd.

Exactly! I've read a lot of posts recently claiming the 'free-market' is the problem. Well, I can't think of many countries in the world who have a currency not owned by the state, a banking system entirely independent of the state, a country with a real, none-fiat currency, a country with minimum to no forms of tax etc. It just isn't the case, and it's not heading that way by and means either. I'm not sure where peo…

One can simultaneously have a relatively free market in thumbnails and combs and a relatively closed market in currency and assassinations.

Re: Atlas Smug | Alex Payne | Jacobin

#17

Post by chipotle_coyote »

vegancap wrote: post #7

The premise of this article is entirely wrong. We haven't had a 'massive deregulation', taxes across the west have rose, as has regulation and centralisation. THAT is why conditions for workers have declined. THAT is why the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer.

Reagan and Clinton both presided over massive deregulation efforts across wide ranges of industry, and there is very obvious correlation between those efforts and the economic changes in the last 30 years. The widening of the gap between rich and poor maps very closely with tax reduction policies that disproportionately help the wealthiest and industry deregulation, particularly of the finance industry. The housing crisis of 2008 would not have happened under the regulatory regime of 1988.

And no, correlation is not causation. (The housing crisis of 2008 was not caused by deregulation, and there's a lot of blame to be shared across the political spectrum.) But it's hard not to notice over the long term that when the crazy leftists predict X will happen after a given massive act of deregulation and the sane rational libertarians predict Y, for the last thirty years we've almost always gotten X. And the libertarian response is always, "It's because you just didn't deregulate enough." Well, yes, that's one possible conclusion...

Re: Atlas Smug | Alex Payne | Jacobin

#19

Post by brucefancher »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #17
vegancap wrote: post #7

The premise of this article is entirely wrong. We haven't had a 'massive deregulation', taxes across the west have rose, as has regulation and centralisation. THAT is why conditions for workers have declined. THAT is why the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer.

Reagan and Clinton both presided over massive deregulation efforts across wide ranges of industry, and there is very obvious correlation between those efforts and the economic changes in the last 30 years. The widening of the gap between rich and poor maps very closely with tax reduction policies that disproportionately help the wealthiest and industry deregulation, particularly of the finance industry. The housing c…

Bullshit. Regulatory spending, the number of people working in regulatory agencies and the number of pages of regulations have all gone UP over the past thirty years. "Deregulation" is a myth promoted by neo-Marxists for whom controlling the lives of other people is their reason for living.
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