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In Defense of Recruiters

blog.42floors.com

11–20 of 68 posts

Re: In Defense of Recruiters

#12
post #10

If you care about maximizing your take home pay, you will not use a recruiter. Regardless of what they tell you, their fee will factor into your salary negotiations and give you less leverage to the upside. While the potential employer won't tell you the recruiters fee, behind closed doors the conversation goes "Well, he wants 125K and the recruiter has a 10% fee on top of that, so..." You're automatically a more exp…

On the flip side, what if you're terrible at negotiating? For those people, even s theoretically reduced salary may be higher than what they'd get for themselves.

Re: In Defense of Recruiters

#13
Recruiters who suck mostly suck because that's what their customers want.

When you get a call from some shady recruiter asking you about a 6 month contract in Omaha, you're getting that call because a company or government agency decided to start doing strategic sourcing and procure people the same way they buy any other commodity.

So two things explain the poor quality -- they are literally squeezing every penny out of the process and are hiring idiots

The other thing is that they don't want to find candidates. They want to have low rates of success -- they're just engaging in a recruitment process to justify hiring workers on guest visas who can be more effectively exploited. If you look in an industry "trade rag", you'll usually find a page with some hard to read, small print job postings -- those are "compliance" advertisements purchased for the same purpose.

Re: In Defense of Recruiters

#14
post #4

A recruiter setup an interview for me about an hour or so south of where I live. He talked up how great of a person the C is. I show up early and wait for the recruiter. He showed 10 minutes AFTER the interview was suppose to start and only then actually met the C person. I started talking to the interviewer and found out that one of the main things on his list for a candidate was to be local. Within 5 minutes we bot…

A long time ago, I showed up in a company for interview after the recruiter told me so. The contact person didn't even know I suppose to be there.

After that, I refuse to go to any on site interview unless I talked to the hiring manager on phone for 10-20 minutes.

If the "lead" is from recruiter to my email inbox, I ask for job descriptions, salary range via email. 98% of "jobs" are rejected base on those info. Good for salary range - No need to "chat" with any headhunter, period!

Re: In Defense of Recruiters

#15
post #10

If you care about maximizing your take home pay, you will not use a recruiter. Regardless of what they tell you, their fee will factor into your salary negotiations and give you less leverage to the upside. While the potential employer won't tell you the recruiters fee, behind closed doors the conversation goes "Well, he wants 125K and the recruiter has a 10% fee on top of that, so..." You're automatically a more exp…

I'm a recruiter, and I often see the opposite effect. There are quite a few candidates that are underpaid and don't realize it until they start talking to a recruiter. If they'd gone directly to the company they may have received that 30% bump to bring them to market rate, but perhaps not. One benefit a recruiter provides to job seekers is the info on the market - of course this only applies to recruiters that know the market.

I'd think fee only figures into the salary conversation when fees are exorbitant (which they can be), otherwise it's a cost of doing business for some companies. Once a startup taps out their friends and family plan, they often reach out to me for some hires, and those usually lead to some referrals from those new hires and the company can subsist off friends/family of the new hires for a little longer.

This is part of the reason I charge lower and fixed (fees paid in advance, well below market rate, and fixed meaning not tied to salary) fees than my competitors, as it takes this argument off the table from both sides. It doesn't prohibit a company from making a hire because the 'tax' on the hire isn't high enough to be prohibitive, and candidates know that the 'tax' on their hire is also relatively low and prepaid. Under this model, any hire is judged based on compensation to value, and not based on a high 'tax'/fee.

Re: In Defense of Recruiters

#16
I have almost no problem with internal recruiters, it's the external/contingency recruiters that I hate with a fiery passion. They call during work hours, email constantly, and provide VERY little value in my experience.

As others have mentioned, due to the high payouts to these recruiters they are willing to lie their pants off to get you to accept the job. The last recruiter I worked with tried to hide the name of the company which really irked me. I am not some piece of cattle to be herded between companies and I am perfectly capable of looking up information on a company to determine if I want to work there or not.

I don't need a recruiter throwing buzzwords at me that he/she thinks will convince me to take the job. Every call with the recruiter was more painful than the last and then at one point the recruiters supervisor contacted me and used even more BS/flowery language to try and convince me to apply for the job.

A few months after I got a new job (without a recruiter) I was contacted by another recruiter but noticed before I trashed the email that this wasn't from a company of recruiters. Instead it was a recruiter hired by the company looking for programmers. We talked back and forth on email a little and she was very nice and I felt like there was much less over-hyping (still a little but that's to be expected in that position). Within a few days and about 2-3 emails I had a phone call with the co-founder. I ended up not taking the job due to lack of experience in what they were really looking for but it was a very pleasant experience. Contrast that with 5+ calls (3 during work before I told him not to call 9-5) with the external recruiter, a meeting in person, him harassing my reference, and never once being able to talk to anyone at the company they were trying to hire me for.

Re: In Defense of Recruiters

#17

I have almost no problem with internal recruiters, it's the external/contingency recruiters that I hate with a fiery passion. They call during work hours, email constantly, and provide VERY little value in my experience. As others have mentioned, due to the high payouts to these recruiters they are willing to lie their pants off to get you to accept the job. The last recruiter I worked with tried to hide the name of…

Your experience with internal recruiters vs external is not unique, and it's the recruiting model that is at fault. Internal recruiters aren't going to be too salesy - they have a monopoly (not always) on the job requirements at their company, and they aren't being paid commission - whether you take the job or not may impact a bonus or performance review, but it isn't going to get them a car.

The contingency recruiter, particularly one who is independent and not working for a big firm, wants you to take the job because it means a new car.

This is an important thing to understand. Cashiers at grocery stores don't pressure you into buying more items, because what you buy has no discernible impact on them. Car salesmen, or realtors, care quite a bit.

Until companies start changing the way they engage recruiters things won't change. Paying them less, but with some guaranteed up front money, is my answer.

Re: In Defense of Recruiters

#18
What would be great is finding out how much exactly recruiters and referral services charge. For instance, how much can Hired.com charge per referral to afford to give several thousand back to the employee.

Re: In Defense of Recruiters

#19
post #11

I don't get all the recruiter hate. You're the pretty girl/handsome guy at the dance, for now. The unsolicited attention will fade with age. Enjoy it while it lasts.

The problem is when the unsolicited attention becomes a distraction. When you have engineers that can have their work process interrupted by something as trivial as workplace banter, an overzealous recruiter that calls incessantly, spams your email with job listings (for "anyone you might know looking for a new opportunity"), and in general doesn't know when to stop is something most developers would rather do without.

I've worked with a few good recruiters, but even over a 5-month job search and talking to every major recruiting firm in town, I got zero actual job offers (and only one real promising lead that fizzled out on the company's side). There's a LOT of inefficiency in the system.

Re: In Defense of Recruiters

#20
post #11

I don't get all the recruiter hate. You're the pretty girl/handsome guy at the dance, for now. The unsolicited attention will fade with age. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Well it's "attention" I guess, but is it the right kind?

A better analogy might the pretty girl walking home from high school, of the rather hick-ish / paleosuburban sort -- when the older dropout pulls up in his muscle car and asks "Hey babe, wanna party?"

I get about the same feeling when talking to recruiters, most of the time.

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