Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

newsoffice.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 50 posts

Re: Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

#11

Post by lumpypua »

Sharlin wrote: post #8

Some related concepts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ingroup_identity And a couple of interesting experiments: http://lesswrong.com/lw/lt/the_robbers_cave_experiment/ http://www.news.wisc.edu/598

More random browsing fodder re: your last link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491274

> Four experiments confirmed that women's automatic in-group bias is remarkably stronger than men's and investigated explanations for this sex difference, derived from potential sources of implicit attitudes (L. A. Rudman, 2004).

PDF: http://rutgerssocialcognitionlab.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/9/7/...

Re: Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

#12

Post by lumpypua »

shurcooL wrote: post #7

This is why I like to consider myself to belong to the group of humans and dislike further specialization based on gender, where you're born, etc. We're on the same team.

Your brain handles ingroup/outgroup behavior automatically. These are not conscious behavioral choices. As far as your brain is concerned, we're not on the same team.

How you choose to act given that understanding of your biology is of course up to you.

Re: Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

#13

Post by cronin101 »

lumpypua wrote: post #12
shurcooL wrote: post #7

This is why I like to consider myself to belong to the group of humans and dislike further specialization based on gender, where you're born, etc. We're on the same team.

Your brain handles ingroup/outgroup behavior automatically. These are not conscious behavioral choices. As far as your brain is concerned, we're not on the same team. How you choose to act given that understanding of your biology is of course up to you.

Sure thing, but by constantly parity-checking your rash decisions you can overcome most learned behaviour in time.

Re: Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

#14

Post by jacquesm »

chrononaut wrote: post #3

This reminds me of the German-produced movie 'Die Welle', or 'The Wave'.[0] It demonstrates the creation and execution of some of these dynamics and how individuals may be susceptible to strong leaders even though their ideals and morals differ. It can be found on Netflix and I recommend it to anyone who found the article interesting. [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1063669/

I'd rather recommend the original, 'The Wave', from 1981.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083316/

I saw this in school as a 17 year old and it has never left me, I keep recommending this movie to people. Especially with the re-surgence of the nationalist movement in Europe (and elsewhere) this is as relevant as it ever was.

Re: Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

#16

Post by TeMPOraL »

shurcooL wrote: post #7

This is why I like to consider myself to belong to the group of humans and dislike further specialization based on gender, where you're born, etc. We're on the same team.

I agree. This is a mindset I had ingrained in me since childhood (probably as a result of watching too much of Capt. Picard).

It's funny how many things around you stop making sense with this mindset. Racism and patriotism obviously come to mind, but there are many, many more, including most of the political discourse on the local scale.

Re: Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

#17

Post by TeMPOraL »

lumpypua wrote: post #12
shurcooL wrote: post #7

This is why I like to consider myself to belong to the group of humans and dislike further specialization based on gender, where you're born, etc. We're on the same team.

Your brain handles ingroup/outgroup behavior automatically. These are not conscious behavioral choices. As far as your brain is concerned, we're not on the same team. How you choose to act given that understanding of your biology is of course up to you.

Yes and no. If you try to avoid labeling yourself as a "member of group X" you'll find that you can avoid a lot of ingroup/outgroup behavior situations. It isn't always easy or possible, but it's something striving for. Pick your groups wisely.

Re: Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

#18

Post by personlurking »

chipsy wrote: post #4

This is why "divide and conquer" is such an effective, commonplace strategy for an aspiring powermonger. Take two groups that are different but not in a remarked upon fashion. Invent a reason for the side that is not you to be a "them." Then organize your own side as an "us" combating the perceived injustice. Now you have an instant follower group at your command, ready to saddle up and commit heinous crimes for you.…

And what happens to those who are neither an "us" nor a "them"? They become a "me"? I prefer being a "me" but that also takes one down the path of possibly not believing in much and, following that logic, of becoming a cynic of all "us vs them" paradigms.

We can also look at the digital world and the "together, alone" concept. With globalization and pop culture, the internet and fewer and fewer entities in charge of our food/entertainment/etc, we become a "me similar to an us".

Edit: I took out an aside/anecdote.

Re: Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

#19

Post by jiggy2011 »

personlurking wrote: post #18
chipsy wrote: post #4

This is why "divide and conquer" is such an effective, commonplace strategy for an aspiring powermonger. Take two groups that are different but not in a remarked upon fashion. Invent a reason for the side that is not you to be a "them." Then organize your own side as an "us" combating the perceived injustice. Now you have an instant follower group at your command, ready to saddle up and commit heinous crimes for you.…

And what happens to those who are neither an "us" nor a "them"? They become a "me"? I prefer being a "me" but that also takes one down the path of possibly not believing in much and, following that logic, of becoming a cynic of all "us vs them" paradigms. We can also look at the digital world and the "together, alone" concept. With globalization and pop culture, the internet and fewer and fewer entities in charge of…

You don't always have the option of not picking a group, see "you're with us or against us". Each group will demand that you identify with them or treat you as a member of the other group.

Re: Belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group

#20

Post by secfirstmd »

Kind of an old story. Studied this year's ago in reference to terrorism. The concept of "ingroup love and outgroup hate" is a large part of terrorism radicalisation.

Also in many ways it's a big chunk of regular military training (though not as extreme) - from boot camp onwards it's "We hate platoon two, we hate battalion three, we hate non-infantry units etc and we are gonna beat them at XYZ."

I have often thought that when people give theories (many I agree with) on the reasons behind the long term drop in crime (better policing, abortion, removing lead paint from houses, change in availability of goods etc) one that they miss out is the change in social nature. My sense is that social connections are now weaker, with more individualism and less scope for in/out group love/hate thus less reason for group related violence - stabbing outside a bar, murder in retribution for attack on your ingroup etc.

Post reply on HN