Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#11

Post by tsunamifury » Wed, Jun 11, 2014, 10:51 PM UTC

I think software engineer and the fundamentals of coding have always had a bias towards those who can conceptualize ideas in the abstract, then build with the assumptions that those concepts are happening regardless of their ability to see them.

This is fine, except that it limits those who need to tinker in order to find out how those concepts work. When the elements are visually recognizable and physically manipulatable, you can tinker without having to hold the entire chain on concepts in your mind. It reduces the load and increases the likelyhood of 'playing around'.

I hope some day more of Victor's ideas can be realized through the understanding that visualizing processes allows us to use more of our brain to design and develop or products -- not to mention stumble upon and explore unexpected outcomes.

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#12

Post by primigenus » Wed, Jun 11, 2014, 10:57 PM UTC

It blows my mind that Bret keeps giving talks in public and sharing his ideas for free when pretty much each of them could have been used as a startup pitch in return for likely investment. But I guess he's more interested in inspiring others than just committing to one idea for years. I'm glad we have him around.

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#13

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 11, 2014, 11:39 PM UTC

primigenus wrote: post #12

It blows my mind that Bret keeps giving talks in public and sharing his ideas for free when pretty much each of them could have been used as a startup pitch in return for likely investment. But I guess he's more interested in inspiring others than just committing to one idea for years. I'm glad we have him around.

[deleted]

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#14

Post by 3rd3 » Wed, Jun 11, 2014, 11:39 PM UTC

primigenus wrote: post #12

It blows my mind that Bret keeps giving talks in public and sharing his ideas for free when pretty much each of them could have been used as a startup pitch in return for likely investment. But I guess he's more interested in inspiring others than just committing to one idea for years. I'm glad we have him around.

This idealism appears to be one reason why he left Apple:

http://worrydream.com/Apple/

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#15

Post by faceyspacey » Wed, Jun 11, 2014, 11:46 PM UTC

primigenus wrote: post #12

It blows my mind that Bret keeps giving talks in public and sharing his ideas for free when pretty much each of them could have been used as a startup pitch in return for likely investment. But I guess he's more interested in inspiring others than just committing to one idea for years. I'm glad we have him around.

it blows my mind is how little of what he's put forth has led to others creating startups out of them.

...what blows my mind more though is he keeps giving talks and hasn't open sourced any of his software on github, like he said he would. i doubt he's working on some big product that puts all his software to use. it's all going to waste and could have helped propel the visions he's set forth. it makes zero sense.

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#16

Post by michael_nielsen » Wed, Jun 11, 2014, 11:56 PM UTC

faceyspacey wrote: post #15

primigenus wrote: post #12

It blows my mind that Bret keeps giving talks in public and sharing his ideas for free when pretty much each of them could have been used as a startup pitch in return for likely investment. But I guess he's more interested in inspiring others than just committing to one idea for years. I'm glad we have him around.

it blows my mind is how little of what he's put forth has led to others creating startups out of them. ...what blows my mind more though is he keeps giving talks and hasn't open sourced any of his software on github, like he said he would. i doubt he's working on some big product that puts all his software to use. it's all going to waste and could have helped propel the visions he's set forth. it makes zero sense.

It is not going to waste. Deep ideas are more durable than either code or startups, but they often take longer to have an impact.

As an example, "Inventing on Principle" has inspired many people and companies to think more deeply about development environments, and to try implementing more speculative ideas. A skeptic can point out that much of that consequent work is of mixed quality, but that's just Sturgeon's Law. What matters is that more people will think better thoughts about more important problems. And that's certainly occurring as a result of Victor's talks and essays.

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#17

Post by faceyspacey » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 12:05 AM UTC

vidar wrote: post #3

He just keeps knocking stuff out of the park.

no, he's not. this is his weakest presentation yet. he was on, but now he fell off. it's not making any sense that he's gone in this direction, and let last year's software ideas wither away on the vine. He should actually propel forward last year's ideas by at least releasing the stuff he said he'd open source on github. Instead, he hasn't done that, nor has he made his own commercial company (which would be a perfectly understandable route), but instead is giving lower quality talks that regurgitate material about observability that was way more profound when he shared it in relation to software, which by naturel, unlike hardware products, is unobservable.

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#18

Post by DaniFong » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 12:21 AM UTC

faceyspacey wrote: post #17

vidar wrote: post #3

He just keeps knocking stuff out of the park.

no, he's not. this is his weakest presentation yet. he was on, but now he fell off. it's not making any sense that he's gone in this direction, and let last year's software ideas wither away on the vine. He should actually propel forward last year's ideas by at least releasing the stuff he said he'd open source on github. Instead, he hasn't done that, nor has he made his own commercial company (which would be a perfe…

You should hesitate for a second; your arguments favor exploitation rather than exploration. Bret's work aims to move beyond 'the tiny rectangle' of computer screens, and companies are nearly decade scale commitments. Why not continue to produce great research before deciding upon the idea that's 'the one?'

I realize this is antithetical to the prevailing theory of lean startups, but, from a deep research perspective, that is exactly why committing to support an open source project or a company is so dangerous. Soon you would have people depending upon you, and the freedom to explore vanishes.

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#19

Post by loup-vaillant » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 12:24 AM UTC

3rd3 wrote: post #14

primigenus wrote: post #12

It blows my mind that Bret keeps giving talks in public and sharing his ideas for free when pretty much each of them could have been used as a startup pitch in return for likely investment. But I guess he's more interested in inspiring others than just committing to one idea for years. I'm glad we have him around.

This idealism appears to be one reason why he left Apple: http://worrydream.com/Apple/

That's… horrible. It feels like he's under a gag order. I wager this stuff could be useful to all of us, but Apple just clings on this "Intellectual Property" like, like… Well, like any corporation.

Re: Bret Victor: Seeing Spaces [video]

#20

Post by spyder » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 12:47 AM UTC

faceyspacey wrote: post #15

primigenus wrote: post #12

It blows my mind that Bret keeps giving talks in public and sharing his ideas for free when pretty much each of them could have been used as a startup pitch in return for likely investment. But I guess he's more interested in inspiring others than just committing to one idea for years. I'm glad we have him around.

it blows my mind is how little of what he's put forth has led to others creating startups out of them. ...what blows my mind more though is he keeps giving talks and hasn't open sourced any of his software on github, like he said he would. i doubt he's working on some big product that puts all his software to use. it's all going to waste and could have helped propel the visions he's set forth. it makes zero sense.

https://github.com/worrydream/Tangle