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Who Gets to Graduate?

nytimes.com

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Re: Who Gets to Graduate?

#11

Post by Tyr42 »

tlb wrote: post #6

This is interesting because it shows a specific mechanism by which smart kids of non-college-educated parents drop out. She failed a test in her first month in college, and her mother told her maybe she wasn't meant to be there. I vaguely remember failing a test early in college too, but it never would have occurred to my (intelligentsia-class) parents that I wasn't meant to be educated. I can only imagine how discou…

I wonder what the data says for people with "Tiger moms", even if they are first generation college students. Is that level of encouragement helpful, in comparison?

Re: Who Gets to Graduate?

#12

Post by reubenmorais »

tlb wrote: post #6

This is interesting because it shows a specific mechanism by which smart kids of non-college-educated parents drop out. She failed a test in her first month in college, and her mother told her maybe she wasn't meant to be there. I vaguely remember failing a test early in college too, but it never would have occurred to my (intelligentsia-class) parents that I wasn't meant to be educated. I can only imagine how discou…

Her mom's doubt certainly makes things worse, but I think the mechanism in motion in this case is best described by Eric Raymond's "Curse of the Gifted" [0]. She's smart, intuitive, and hadn't had any trouble in academia before. When things get really complicated in college, everything collapses, and it takes a lot of effort and support to get back on your feet. Having college educated parents helps with the support part, but it doesn't prevent you from collapsing in the first place.

[0] http://www.vanadac.com/~dajhorn/novelties/ESR%20-%20Curse%20...

Re: Who Gets to Graduate?

#13

Post by jmz92 »

I'm curious: how would the achievement gap change if all or most post-secondary education was delivered online instead of at physical colleges/universities?

Re: Who Gets to Graduate?

#14

Post by incision »

For everyone who can't be bothered to read the article:

'The second trend is that whether a student graduates or not seems to depend today almost entirely on just one factor — how much money his or her parents make. To put it in blunt terms: Rich kids graduate; poor and working-class kids don’t.'

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'But the disadvantaged students who had experienced the belonging and mind-set messages did significantly better: 86 percent of them had completed 12 credits or more by Christmas. They had cut the gap between themselves and the advantaged students in half.'

Basically, straightforward encouragement and promotion of a sense of belonging has a significant effect toward equalizing the health, academic performance and graduation rates of economically disadvantaged kids of the same aptitude as wealthier peers.

Re: Who Gets to Graduate?

#15

Post by nl »

jmz92 wrote: post #13

I'm curious: how would the achievement gap change if all or most post-secondary education was delivered online instead of at physical colleges/universities?

Given the mechanism which seems to cause people to drop out (basically, lack of encouragement and/or sense of belonging) you can make arguments both ways.

The completion rate for online courses is very low anyway, so it is likely this difference might be immaterial in the noise of that overall low rate.

Re: Who Gets to Graduate?

#16

Post by jotux »

pnt12 wrote: post #5

I didn't read the whole article, but from the introduction, it seemed she failed the test because she wasn't used to studying hard in high school. Richer students do have more resources but I can't figure why money was a relevant factor in this case.

I heard a good article on NPR a while back (that I can't find now) that talked about the difference between rich and poor college students. A big factor that helped students from affluent homes is the fact that their college-graduate parents were familiar with college campus services and how to navigate them. So when their children failed tests and called home upset they would tell them to go to a tutoring center, or encourage them to go to office hours and ask for help. Students from poor homes, with parents that never went to college, didn't understand the resources available to them and were more likely to drop out because of that. If anyone can find a link to the article, it would be appreciated.

Re: Who Gets to Graduate?

#18

Post by zhemao »

jmz92 wrote: post #13

I'm curious: how would the achievement gap change if all or most post-secondary education was delivered online instead of at physical colleges/universities?

I don't think that would change much. This isn't so much about how the kids are being taught but rather about whether or not the working-class kids feel like they belong. Also, online classes are arguably worse for kids who are already doing poorly, since they get less opportunity to ask questions in class or get help from the professor and TAs.

Re: Who Gets to Graduate?

#19

Post by nl »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #3

further reading on getting dramatically underqualified students to graduate anyway: http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/blackelite.htm At some point, you wonder: what if we gave the same level of support to the qualified students?

As a general rule, "qualified" students are much more likely to exhibit the behaviors this program implements:

house them together, encourage them to form study groups, provide them with mentors and tutors, meet with them regularly to stress the importance of academic achievement, monitor their progress closely, involve them in research, take away their scholarships if they fail to make a "B" average, they will perform better than students deprived of these benefits.

And before anyone gets hung up on the "scholarship" part: I know plenty of students who had parents pay for at least some of their college, but knew they had to perform or their parents would stop paying. That expectation of performance is the same.

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