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Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

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Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#11

Post by waps »

tyleregeto wrote: post #7
spankalee wrote: post #2

So far Google's self-driving cars have been designed to have the driver take over in certain situations. I wonder how that works without a steering wheel and pedals. Are the cars manually drivable at all?

Yes, that's is a very interesting point. I would think that, long term, the only manual control a self driving car really needs is a "kill switch." How long will it be after self-driving tech goes mainstream until people simply don't know who to drive? I can see my kids now, "I remember when I was a kid, my mom/dad actually had to control the automobile. Archaic!" Not too long ago my friend's son asked me why my phon…

There's a funny mention of this problem in "I, Robot". When will smith takes the wheel he is scolded for taking such a completely irresponsible risk. Given how those robots drive versus how he drives, we likely will have to agree with this at some point.

I wonder if real life will play out the same way : will controlling a car the human way become an unacceptable risk, and how fast will this happen ? Because we're likely to see both effects play here : first, humans will become worse at controlling vehicles, and vehicles will become better at it, likely having superior senses and predictive ability. So there should come a point where humans become a risk.

So there will come a point where we get to choose between new policies and letting humans drive. If we had self-driving cars and we could eliminate speed limits on interstates entirely, in trade for not allowing human drivers at all, would we do it ?

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#13

Post by tyleregeto »

dustinupdyke wrote: post #8

When the man with glasses gives his perspective, the enablement hits you. If you've any humanity, you feel the potential this technology brings to so many.

I can relate to this. Anyone who has ever had to take a family members car away from them as they get older can as well. When someone has driven most of their life, losing the ability to drive can be a very difficult. To them its losing their independence. Self driving technology is very much about enablement.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#14

Post by arebop »

spankalee wrote: post #2

So far Google's self-driving cars have been designed to have the driver take over in certain situations. I wonder how that works without a steering wheel and pedals. Are the cars manually drivable at all?

This wouldn't be a very interesting story if the answer were "yes." Whether Google or Toyota manufactures a self-driving car with manual override doesn't matter much from the point of view of a typical citizen or someone who's interested in the architectural implications of this technology.

As long as there's a manual override and a responsibility to use it, the car requires a capable driver paying attention all the time. It's an interesting beginning and it might improve safety but it doesn't fundamentally change things.

But without manual override, the car must be very reliably capable on its own. I suppose there might be a network connection and the ability to dispatch an Uber to pick you up whenever the car decides it is unable to proceed. But nobody will choose to use these cars if that scenario is remotely common. So announcing that this thing could ship in 2 years indicates to me that either Google's tech is doing way better than has been suggested in other recent press, or Google has started talking up vaporware to an unprecedented degree.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#15

Post by rquantz »

It seems like a mistake to remove manual controls entirely, not necessarily because of safety concerns, but because there are a fair number of times when you need the car to go somewhere without having a route. I'm thinking of things like:

Moving your car ten feet so somebody else can get out of the driveway; handling double parking during alternate side parking hours; moving the car because you were waiting to pick someone up in a no-standing zone and a cop just pulled up behind you; moving the car to just the right spot so grandma doesn't have to walk any more steps than absolutely necessary; parking on a lawn for a party or concert; backing up to just the right spot so you can hitch up a trailer.

The list could go on forever, and that's the point -- you can surely automate away some of these tasks, but there is an infinite multiplicity of things that need to be done with a car, and having to point them out on a map in order to get the car to do them, or even use a joystick to do it, sounds like an obnoxious chore.

Edit: to those who disagree with me by pointing to a utopian future of car sharing for everyone and no one even being able to drive, that's fine I guess, but this seems to be suggesting that the very first generation of these will be without a steering wheel, when very few people will have these cars and all of the problems I listed will still exist. Even if your ultimate goal is for passengers to be completely dependent on the AI for navigation, that's just not going to be an option when these things roll off the lot as soon as 2016.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#16

Post by Mister_Snuggles »

This will eventually make non-automated driving sort of like a manual transmission (in North America) - something you get because you either specifically want one or because it's all you can afford (I'm probably way over-generalizing). Eventually, just like the automatic transmission, the self-driving car will be the default for most people.

I don't imagine that we'll get away from people who drive because they find it enjoyable any time soon.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#17

Post by jackvalentine »

rquantz wrote: post #15

It seems like a mistake to remove manual controls entirely, not necessarily because of safety concerns, but because there are a fair number of times when you need the car to go somewhere without having a route. I'm thinking of things like: Moving your car ten feet so somebody else can get out of the driveway; handling double parking during alternate side parking hours; moving the car because you were waiting to pick…

I agree with you, perhaps in the context of a personal vehicle there does need to be manual control.

However I can see these more as a form of private public transit, a fleet of driverless google cars cruising around and anyone with a subscription a la zipcar can hail them and go.

Perhaps in this context, Google could operate parking garages where they can be recharged and cleaned while keeping them off the street and out of people's ways.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#18

Post by Mister_Snuggles »

rquantz wrote: post #15

It seems like a mistake to remove manual controls entirely, not necessarily because of safety concerns, but because there are a fair number of times when you need the car to go somewhere without having a route. I'm thinking of things like: Moving your car ten feet so somebody else can get out of the driveway; handling double parking during alternate side parking hours; moving the car because you were waiting to pick…

I think the eventual goal will be that most cars will be self-driving and that will negate most of those problems.

I imagine that the vision of the future is a giant car-sharing program made up of self-driving cars all coordinated by Google. Think about it - you fire up an app to request a car, one appears at your door within a couple of minutes, takes you to work, then disappears. After work, a different car picks you up, whisks you home, then scurries off to recharge/refuel/drive someone else. I suspect that in the long term the thinking is that things like "parking" and "owning a car" will be less common than they are today.

There will still be a place for manually driven cars, like ones pulling a trailer, etc.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#19

Post by [deleted] »

rquantz wrote: post #15

It seems like a mistake to remove manual controls entirely, not necessarily because of safety concerns, but because there are a fair number of times when you need the car to go somewhere without having a route. I'm thinking of things like: Moving your car ten feet so somebody else can get out of the driveway; handling double parking during alternate side parking hours; moving the car because you were waiting to pick…

[deleted]

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#20

Post by gfodor »

rquantz wrote: post #15

It seems like a mistake to remove manual controls entirely, not necessarily because of safety concerns, but because there are a fair number of times when you need the car to go somewhere without having a route. I'm thinking of things like: Moving your car ten feet so somebody else can get out of the driveway; handling double parking during alternate side parking hours; moving the car because you were waiting to pick…

In the long run, if self driving cars work, people will no longer be qualified to operate their vehicles. Would you let your toddler move the car 10 feet to pick up grandma?

That said they will almost certainly have a manual override in these things, it will just be tucked away out of view.

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