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Question for the Ivy Leaguers

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Re: Question for the Ivy Leaguers

#11

Post by gregcohn »

chrisBob wrote: post #7
gregcohn wrote: post #5

I think there's more to it than social milieu as other commenters have suggested. One way to look at it would be to think about a university as a series of (populations of students, professors, alumni networks, recruiters, athletes, extracurricular options, etc) that can be thought of in terms of their means not their maxima. It is probably true that you can get as good (or nearly as good, or perhaps even better) an…

I think your peers at an Ivy League school are much more likely to be wealthy, and slightly more likely to be interested in academics. Perhaps some of this disagreement comes from the other schools used for comparison. I figure the OP is looking at good schools either way. You should also be careful about the top professors. The best professors are experts in their field, but you may be better off taking a class from…

I think it depends on the Ivy in question(re your first point). On your second, absolutely agree. But again, say you want to do research work, or take a graduate course. In a "best in the world" environment, the average of your opportunity set there is going to be higher than a non-best-in-class environment.

Re: Question for the Ivy Leaguers

#12

Post by gregcohn »

Nicholas_C wrote: post #6
gregcohn wrote: post #5

I think there's more to it than social milieu as other commenters have suggested. One way to look at it would be to think about a university as a series of (populations of students, professors, alumni networks, recruiters, athletes, extracurricular options, etc) that can be thought of in terms of their means not their maxima. It is probably true that you can get as good (or nearly as good, or perhaps even better) an…

> From a social point of view, if you want to associate yourself with interesting, smart people and engage with interesting social activities, you will have to identify and seek those out from among everything else. Other than less desirable job opportunities, this was the worst part about going to a school that isn't top ranked. Most of my classmates and people in my social circles were there to go through the motio…

This is a very insightful comment.

It's hard to imagine most high-school seniors having the sophistication to make good choices here without the guidance of sophisticated parents or supporters, let alone imagine younger students making them early enough to have good options.

Re: Question for the Ivy Leaguers

#13

Post by jamielee »

josephschmoe wrote: post #10

For small departments, your experience can vary strongly from the school in general. I went to UC Irvine in physics, which both has an extremely high teacher:student ratio (42 teachers, graduating class of 18 students) and abundant funding. While the university is known for its research, having that kind of ratio can have a drastic effect on your education. My favorite class ever had only five students in it. It was…

Wow, that teacher to student ratio sounds seems like it would make for a great educational utopia! That's crazy and I have never heard of such a thing! :)

I asked this question more so for potential-start-up research purposes. I have already graduated from college, though I did think about getting a graduate degree, but I am not so sure I want to do that anymore. I concluded that it would be more effective for me personally to study on my own (if I were to pursue computer science). Classes sort of make me lose motivation. It feels so forced much of the time.

Re: Question for the Ivy Leaguers

#14

Post by jamielee »

jerrytsai wrote: post #9
jamielee wrote: post #8

I really enjoyed reading all of the replies! Thank you all for the input. To be a little more specific, I want to know if the classes themselves were significantly more effective in transferring knowledge to students. Do the classes at Ivy Leagues have a measurable superiority to classes of other colleges (as in, do the students learn more because the classes are way better, or do the students learn more simply becau…

I went to graduate school at a state school and at an Ivy League school, and my twin went to an Ivy League school for college while I went to a prestigious non-Ivy League school. So I will try to answer your questions based on my experience. YMMV. No, I did not find that the classes were significantly more effective in transferring knowledge in either type of school. My impression was this: depending on the school, t…

Did you find yourself enjoying the Ivy League environment (being around other high achievers) more? Has being at an Ivy League changed your world view? Which one did you like more?

I don't know if MOOCs will take off (in terms of being reliable for hiring). Just an unjustified gut feeling. Maybe they already have. I know they offer "certificates" that you can pay for.

Re: Question for the Ivy Leaguers

#16

Post by psyklic »

jamielee wrote: post #8

I really enjoyed reading all of the replies! Thank you all for the input. To be a little more specific, I want to know if the classes themselves were significantly more effective in transferring knowledge to students. Do the classes at Ivy Leagues have a measurable superiority to classes of other colleges (as in, do the students learn more because the classes are way better, or do the students learn more simply becau…

I went to a state school and Caltech, which is not an Ivy League school but it is well regarded. The math courses were definitely much more difficult at Caltech. The incoming student caliber is much higher than at the state school, so even the introductory courses are very challenging in comparison. This sets a high bar immediately, which allows every succeeding course to maintain that high bar.

College-aged students are highly motivated, but they are often highly motivated simply to do well at school. Only a minority know what they are passionate about otherwise, which is evidenced by students switching their majors all the time.

I strongly believe that who you surround yourself with determines what you strive to become. Ivy League schools constantly tell you that you can become a superstar, so students believe it and your friends all strive to become superstars.

If your friends are all starting tech startups and you know people who have sold companies, suddenly it becomes something you strive to do. If you hang out with drug dealers then you will strive to get respect in a different way. This social factor transforms people just as much as the classes.

Re: Question for the Ivy Leaguers

#17

Post by impendia »

gyardley wrote: post #3

Quality of education varies with the professor, as always, and what you get depends on how hard you work. The Ivy League - and other high-prestige schools like Stanford - are primarily useful for the connections you make and the status they convey to others. On many people, knowing that you went to [prestigious school here] has a "these are not the droids you're looking for" effect that comes in handy all over the pl…

> The Ivy League - and other high-prestige schools like Stanford - are primarily useful for the connections you make and the status they convey to others.

I emphatically disagree.

I taught math at Stanford for three years as a postdoc, and got a permanent job at a second-tier state school. The Stanford students are getting a WAAAAY better education.

A lot of students here are weakly prepared, uninterested in academics, and/or have burdensome part time jobs. (I was amazed at how many full-time students here also work 30 hours a week.) This means the expectations are lower, the peer pressure to succeed is not there, and teachers can't get very far in their syllabi. We do okay, but we sure as heck don't compare to Stanford.

For me as an undergrad the choice of schools would have made a major difference. I always depended at least a little on being pushed by others -- those lucky few that do not can probably thrive anywhere.

Re: Question for the Ivy Leaguers

#18

Post by lugg »

chrisBob wrote: post #2

Its not just about the classes and education. Its about the resume. The Ivy League doesn't teach you anything you can't get at another school, but it makes it easier to get your next job which is what college is all about. Ivy League schools do tend to offer slightly better than average educations partially because of their funding. The alumni are successful, and tend to give a lot of money back to the schools which…

Does having a piece of paper from stanford stand out more than a piece of paper from somewhere else?

I'm from australia, we don't really care where you got the piece of paper, just that you did your time and even then you could probably argue your way into an interview without it.

We value education sure but we don't really have the whole ivy league elitism thing going on. I don't think there is even much of a deal to do with alumni.

Economies of scale I guess.

Re: Question for the Ivy Leaguers

#19

Post by maxerickson »

lugg wrote: post #18
chrisBob wrote: post #2

Its not just about the classes and education. Its about the resume. The Ivy League doesn't teach you anything you can't get at another school, but it makes it easier to get your next job which is what college is all about. Ivy League schools do tend to offer slightly better than average educations partially because of their funding. The alumni are successful, and tend to give a lot of money back to the schools which…

Does having a piece of paper from stanford stand out more than a piece of paper from somewhere else? I'm from australia, we don't really care where you got the piece of paper, just that you did your time and even then you could probably argue your way into an interview without it. We value education sure but we don't really have the whole ivy league elitism thing going on. I don't think there is even much of a deal t…

Most of the extra signaling value comes from the competitive admissions.

(Which I think as much as anything means they have a great pool of applicants to choose from, meaning they would have to do something pretty radical to screw it up)

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