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NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

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11–20 of 47 posts

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#11

Hrm, guess I wont buy American any more.

I've started doing the same. Of course, I wouldn't be shocked if either or both of the following were true:

1. Other countries collude with America in this practise; 2. Other countries are also practising this.

Open source is a potential solution to this problem. It doesn't guarantee security (heartbleed anyone?), but it does allow anyone, anywhere, any time (assuming capability) to verify. My router runs Open-WRT, so I feel safer.

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#12

Hrm, guess I wont buy American any more.

"Do you mean a car designed in the US and built in China, or a Japanese car built in Ohio?" I'm pretty sure that given how few choices of mainstream hardware there are you are screwed no matter what you buy.

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#14
This reminds me of a story about a TOR developer who suspected her keyboard from Amazon was intercepted and implanted, because the redirection was included in the delivery log. Seems quite likely it was, in light of Glenn's latest slides release.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140124/10564825981/nsa-in...

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#15

Hrm, guess I wont buy American any more.

I've started doing the same. Of course, I wouldn't be shocked if either or both of the following were true: 1. Other countries collude with America in this practise; 2. Other countries are also practising this. Open source is a potential solution to this problem. It doesn't guarantee security (heartbleed anyone?), but it does allow anyone, anywhere, any time (assuming capability) to verify. My router runs Open-WRT, s…

Thinking about this more, there's a little problem for those living in "the land of opportunity": given that the government has access to all communication via its dragnet, they're aware of your purchase and can intercept it at customs. Now you might try to be smart and buy it in person while on holiday. But remember, the airport NSA can take it off your without reason and of course do what they want to it.

I'm glad I don't live there.

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#16
post #7
post #3

Translation of the NSA statement: We don't deny altering hardware. In fact, if we (likely) install backdoors into hardware used by foreign intelligence targets; but don't worry, we're not interested in the casual user. As the US Government relies on commercial hardware, we make sure that only the US Government can access the backdoors. We're angry that this was made public, and we can't prove that it jeopardizes huma…

It also sheds some new light on the "China-hardware is bad for you" media campaign that was run right before Snowden happened. It seems that not buying American means keeping the American intelligence community out of ones network. But I guess you _actually_ can't trust the Chinese either. That doesn't leave many hardware vendors for heavy-duty network equipment to choose from.

"It seems that not buying American means keeping the American intelligence community out of ones network."

Will barricading your front door keep thieves from coming in the side window?

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#17
post #7
post #3

Translation of the NSA statement: We don't deny altering hardware. In fact, if we (likely) install backdoors into hardware used by foreign intelligence targets; but don't worry, we're not interested in the casual user. As the US Government relies on commercial hardware, we make sure that only the US Government can access the backdoors. We're angry that this was made public, and we can't prove that it jeopardizes huma…

It also sheds some new light on the "China-hardware is bad for you" media campaign that was run right before Snowden happened. It seems that not buying American means keeping the American intelligence community out of ones network. But I guess you _actually_ can't trust the Chinese either. That doesn't leave many hardware vendors for heavy-duty network equipment to choose from.

Sure you can. The Chinese are 10,000 miles away and don't really care about Western domestic politics. It might be different if you are an arms or pharma company, but for the average citizen concerned about civil liberties, you really can trust the Chinese in this case.

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#18
post #10
post #6

So is it safe to assume every Intel or AMD CPU also likely has hidden capabilities waiting to be exploited by the NSA?

What are the hidden router capabilities being exploited here? What piece of COTS hardware couldn't be exploited by an attacker with unlimited physical access to it prior to delivery?

Indeed. Somehow a story about NSA tampering with devices after manufacture is being twisted into "all commercial products are deliberately backdoored". If you actually use logic, these are separate issues.

Actually, if anything, the story is proof that the routers are not backdoored from the start, otherwise why would they have to intercept shipments?

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#19
How much hardware is actually made in the USA anymore? Most HW is manufactured in Taiwan, China, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia or maybe Mexico. I used to work for a router manufacturer that manufactured all of its equipment in Taiwan and Mexico. When we shipped to someone in Europe(for example) we shipped directly from Taiwan to Europe, not through the US. So I have to wonder how much of this stuff the NSA could actually get their hands on.

The other question I have is what happens when there is an RMA, or the equipment is sent back for repair? Might someone notice that it's been tampered with? We need more specifics to really understand what was going on here. So many questions, no real answers.

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#20
post #17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also sheds some new light on the "China-hardware is bad for you" media campaign that was run right before Snowden happened. It seems that not buying American means keeping the American intelligence community out of ones network. But I guess you _actually_ can't trust the Chinese either. That doesn't leave many hardware vendors for heavy-duty network equipment to choose from.

Sure you can. The Chinese are 10,000 miles away and don't really care about Western domestic politics. It might be different if you are an arms or pharma company, but for the average citizen concerned about civil liberties, you really can trust the Chinese in this case.

It is not about you and the government, but rather about hackers that found out and are digging for these government approved exploits/backdoors/what-have-you.If they do alter piece by piece different bit of hardware then O.K. but somehow I doubt thats how this works, would be too work intensive and sloppy - error prone.
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