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A thing that never was: ringback tones

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Re: A thing that never was: ringback tones

#11

Post by ian0 »

I live in Indonesia and I can vouch that ring-back-tones are not just alive but also remain very profitable.

When you call a person with a RBT there is first a message saying "If you want this tone for 10cents please press 7", then the music starts, usually the latest chart-song.

Needless to say it has a solid customer base made up mostly of teens, but also of corporates with a company jingo as the RBT (I kid you not).

Im not sure if the big chat apps (will dominate VoiP) have this function built in yet but Id imagine they will at some stage, a nice VAS if you can charge for it..

Re: A thing that never was: ringback tones

#13

Post by MBCook »

pmorici wrote: post #8
MBCook wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were designing that system that's what I would have done. I can't think of an actual need for that ability, only the fact it could be used for novelty, abused to annoy people, or just flat out cause problems (i.e. what if my ringback tone is a busy signal?)

It's used as a cheap way to implement a school closing hotline where people all call to receive the same message.

You came up with something, I'm impressed. I don't think that would be the best way to implement that but it's a sane idea and one more than I had.

Edit: after reading more in the thread, I see you actually ENCOUNTERED this. Why do it this way? Would it somehow be cheaper because you don't have to 'answer' the calls and hold the lines open?

Re: A thing that never was: ringback tones

#14

Post by startledmarmot »

The U.S. market for straight ringback tones was really hampered by lack of competent marketing, poor (and as josh2600 said: annoyingly over-complicated, Telecom-mentality driven) implementation, and a complete lack of inter-carrier cooperation in the VAS space. Too bad - like Indonesia, it's quite huge in Latin America and many other parts of the world.

Ring Plus is still working with that technology - but now does a lot with reverse ringback tones; rbts based on what you want/prefer to hear, not what the person you're calling wants you to hear. It's now a mobile phone MVNO in the U.S using reverse RBTs to deliver a Spotify/Rdio/Pandora-style radio feed that goes towards subsidizing or eliminating your phone bill.

Re: A thing that never was: ringback tones

#15

Post by startledmarmot »

MBCook wrote: post #13
pmorici wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's used as a cheap way to implement a school closing hotline where people all call to receive the same message.

You came up with something, I'm impressed. I don't think that would be the best way to implement that but it's a sane idea and one more than I had. Edit: after reading more in the thread, I see you actually ENCOUNTERED this. Why do it this way? Would it somehow be cheaper because you don't have to 'answer' the calls and hold the lines open?

It really boils down to money. When the call connects, somebody gets charged. Perhaps both of you do -- you lose a minute on your cellphone bill, and the school gets charged a minute for the phone call.

Putting the school notice in the RBT space eliminates this charge and essentially makes the entire transaction "free."

Lots of big companies use this for the first step in their automated attendants. Since DTMF (phone number signals) are transmitted during the ringback tone (but voice is not), they can put the first step of their attendant in the RBT space. This saves them the money if you never get any further, or decide to hang up soon after.

Re: A thing that never was: ringback tones

#17

Post by josh2600 »

startledmarmot wrote: post #15
MBCook wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You came up with something, I'm impressed. I don't think that would be the best way to implement that but it's a sane idea and one more than I had. Edit: after reading more in the thread, I see you actually ENCOUNTERED this. Why do it this way? Would it somehow be cheaper because you don't have to 'answer' the calls and hold the lines open?

It really boils down to money. When the call connects, somebody gets charged. Perhaps both of you do -- you lose a minute on your cellphone bill, and the school gets charged a minute for the phone call. Putting the school notice in the RBT space eliminates this charge and essentially makes the entire transaction "free." Lots of big companies use this for the first step in their automated attendants. Since DTMF (phone…

The settlement agreements for calls are pretty straightforward (Sending party pays). Consumers are also billed for service, but behind the scenes there's a wholesale market where traffic imbalances are valuable (this is also a core issue with Net Neutrality; consider that at peak Netflix is 35% of global bandwidth which is mostly delivered by one provider: cogent).

There's a whole different discussion around signaling and abusing both headers and early media transfers to avoid billing. It's still very largely the wild west, IMHO.

Re: A thing that never was: ringback tones

#18

Post by startledmarmot »

josh2600 wrote: post #17
startledmarmot wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really boils down to money. When the call connects, somebody gets charged. Perhaps both of you do -- you lose a minute on your cellphone bill, and the school gets charged a minute for the phone call. Putting the school notice in the RBT space eliminates this charge and essentially makes the entire transaction "free." Lots of big companies use this for the first step in their automated attendants. Since DTMF (phone…

The settlement agreements for calls are pretty straightforward (Sending party pays). Consumers are also billed for service, but behind the scenes there's a wholesale market where traffic imbalances are valuable (this is also a core issue with Net Neutrality; consider that at peak Netflix is 35% of global bandwidth which is mostly delivered by one provider: cogent). There's a whole different discussion around signalin…

Truthfully, regarding call connect charges, ringback, per-minute fees, etc... I don't think many folks think much about the fact that a lot of the business and billing decisions driving modern telecom policy are still rooted in the same thought patterns they were in the 1950s. It drives the net neutrality debates, it drives shareholder profit expectations, everything.

And I agree - it's absolutely the wild west. After 70 years of doing it one way, we're starting to see a tipping point of new realtime infrastructures and technologies. Unfortunately, I think it's likely to become even more wild as the "silo-ification of communication" trend continues. Boo.

Don't get me started on credit card processing fees. ;)

Re: A thing that never was: ringback tones

#19

Post by beilabs »

ian0 wrote: post #11

I live in Indonesia and I can vouch that ring-back-tones are not just alive but also remain very profitable. When you call a person with a RBT there is first a message saying "If you want this tone for 10cents please press 7", then the music starts, usually the latest chart-song. Needless to say it has a solid customer base made up mostly of teens, but also of corporates with a company jingo as the RBT (I kid you not…

I'm pretty sure this was incredibly popular in China around 2005. Pick your favourite artists song and pay for it with existing phone credit. Then force your family and friends to listen each time they call...
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