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Trouble in Missouri

teslamotors.com

11–20 of 56 posts

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#11

Can someone explain to me why it should be illegal for Ford or Chevy to sell their cars directly? Is it really anti-competitive? Apple sells their phones directly, AT&T sells Apple phones directly, and resellers like Best Buy or Radio Shack sell Apple phones, and they're all doing pretty well economically. Not even arguing that Tesla should be allowed to sell cars without a dealership, why bother preventing direct sa…

[deleted]

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#12

Can someone explain to me why it should be illegal for Ford or Chevy to sell their cars directly? Is it really anti-competitive? Apple sells their phones directly, AT&T sells Apple phones directly, and resellers like Best Buy or Radio Shack sell Apple phones, and they're all doing pretty well economically. Not even arguing that Tesla should be allowed to sell cars without a dealership, why bother preventing direct sa…

The original intent of these laws was to protect franchisees, who may work very hard to develop a local market, from manufactures later coming in to that same area with direct sales, effectively stealing the market from the franchisee who identified and developed it.

The Tesla argument, which makes sense to me, is that since they have no franchise dealers, there is no reason to prohibit them from selling direct.

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#13

Can someone explain to me why it should be illegal for Ford or Chevy to sell their cars directly? Is it really anti-competitive? Apple sells their phones directly, AT&T sells Apple phones directly, and resellers like Best Buy or Radio Shack sell Apple phones, and they're all doing pretty well economically. Not even arguing that Tesla should be allowed to sell cars without a dealership, why bother preventing direct sa…

It is protectionism for the dealerships. Historically Dealerships were mom and pop shops up in less-populated towns, employing a decent number of people.

So they lobby the government that unless you protect us from the dealers, they will undercut our prices by selling directly to consumers, and we will have to lay off some of our employees, or go out of business. Then our small town won't have said dealerships anymore.

Especially now that we have the internet, these policies are antiquated and end up hurting consumers, by driving up prices. Without the middle-man, cars could be sold at lower prices.

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#14

I live in Kansas City, MO (Independence, actually). I just called my representative's office. You can find yours here: http://www.senate.mo.gov/LegisLookup/default.aspx/default.as... My statement was as follows if anyone cars to piggy-back/draw inspiration. Hello, I am a constituent and I'd like to voice my opposition to House Bill 1124 in its current form. It has recently had anti-competitive and anti-consumer langu…

Great! Thanks for this. Just called Gary Cross and left a message for him, even though his secretary sounded like she had no idea what I was talking about. I'd assume I was the first one.

Edit: Turns out my rep, Gary Cross, owns a dealership in my hometown. Seems like I'm screwed in terms of being represented.

For anyone curious, I found the bill. http://www.senate.mo.gov/14info/BTS_Amendments/?SessionType=... Page 31 and 32 appear to hold the money quotes, so check the underlined amendments on those pages.

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#15

Can someone explain to me why it should be illegal for Ford or Chevy to sell their cars directly? Is it really anti-competitive? Apple sells their phones directly, AT&T sells Apple phones directly, and resellers like Best Buy or Radio Shack sell Apple phones, and they're all doing pretty well economically. Not even arguing that Tesla should be allowed to sell cars without a dealership, why bother preventing direct sa…

It may help to view this set of laws the same way that some people view labor unions.

Labor unions started with positive intentions and were needed to protect workers who were often overworked and underpaid.

Now many feel that labor unions mostly exist to support themselves and make it harder on everyone from corporations to consumers and their effects aren't near as beneficial as they once were.

The internet has made direct-to-consumer sales a much more viable alternative and the car industry has yet to realize it.

By the way, cars aren't the only products sold this way. Try to buy a Stihl chainsaw or a John Deere mower without going through a dealership. Try to buy a traditional name brand mattress or piece of furniture direct from the manufacturer.

There is a start up born nearly every day trying to "disrupt" this business model.

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#16
post #9

Can someone explain to me why it should be illegal for Ford or Chevy to sell their cars directly? Is it really anti-competitive? Apple sells their phones directly, AT&T sells Apple phones directly, and resellers like Best Buy or Radio Shack sell Apple phones, and they're all doing pretty well economically. Not even arguing that Tesla should be allowed to sell cars without a dealership, why bother preventing direct sa…

As an example - Official Apple Stores have hurt mom&pop Apple stores. Apple ultimately makes money either way, but they make more money if they sell them at their own Apple store. Why would you go to the mom&pop store if an Apple store were nearby? There have also been reports that they don't give the 3rd party shops new models until much later, so they are at even more of a disadvantage. Try buying that new Macbook…

One thing I don't understand is why the dealers didn't play the manufacturers off each other to mitigate the problems.

I can see that, for Apple dealers, it could be a major problem. Apple products are a specific niche, and you can't take your Apple dealer and turn it into something else with much hope of success. Selling PCs is a pretty different business.

But when it comes to car, surely selling Fords is much the same as selling Toyotas? If Toyota treated a dealership badly, why wouldn't they shop around for a brand that would treat them better? Is it that the American car manufacturing industry wasn't sufficiently competitive for that to work when these laws were being written?

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#17

Can someone explain to me why it should be illegal for Ford or Chevy to sell their cars directly? Is it really anti-competitive? Apple sells their phones directly, AT&T sells Apple phones directly, and resellers like Best Buy or Radio Shack sell Apple phones, and they're all doing pretty well economically. Not even arguing that Tesla should be allowed to sell cars without a dealership, why bother preventing direct sa…

It may help to view this set of laws the same way that some people view labor unions. Labor unions started with positive intentions and were needed to protect workers who were often overworked and underpaid. Now many feel that labor unions mostly exist to support themselves and make it harder on everyone from corporations to consumers and their effects aren't near as beneficial as they once were. The internet has mad…

Are Stihl and John Deere dealerships protected by law, or is that just how the business arrangements shook out?

There's nothing wrong with the dealership model per se, but it's troublesome when it becomes mandated by law.

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#18

Can someone explain to me why it should be illegal for Ford or Chevy to sell their cars directly? Is it really anti-competitive? Apple sells their phones directly, AT&T sells Apple phones directly, and resellers like Best Buy or Radio Shack sell Apple phones, and they're all doing pretty well economically. Not even arguing that Tesla should be allowed to sell cars without a dealership, why bother preventing direct sa…

> Apple sells their phones directly, AT&T sells Apple phones directly, and resellers like Best Buy or Radio Shack sell Apple phones, and they're all doing pretty well economically.

The trick is that they are actually three different business models. Apple makes money on the phones. AT&T makes money on the phone contract. Best Buy or Radio Shack make money on the protection plans and accessories.

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#19

Can someone explain to me why it should be illegal for Ford or Chevy to sell their cars directly? Is it really anti-competitive? Apple sells their phones directly, AT&T sells Apple phones directly, and resellers like Best Buy or Radio Shack sell Apple phones, and they're all doing pretty well economically. Not even arguing that Tesla should be allowed to sell cars without a dealership, why bother preventing direct sa…

Let's say you borrow money, and open a nice profitable dealership. The manufacturer, then decides to steal your profits by raising the wholesale price of cars for you until you are bankrupt, and the manufacturer buys the dealership out from under you in bankruptcy court.

That type of behavior is what created franchise laws in the first place.

Re: Trouble in Missouri

#20
I find this kind of thing disturbing. How often do companies exploit the legislative process like this but with no opposing side to complain? How much lobbying machinery and back room dealing is designed to achieve precisely this at any level of government? Is there even any way to know, much less do something?
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