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Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

blog.helloworldopen.com

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Re: Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

#11

Post by kasey_junk »

pmelendez wrote: post #8
paukiatwee wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any reason why Go is better than Java on Android? Concurrency is the reason? I personally think Go is good for System Programming, e.g. Docker, GoRouter (Cloud Foundry), etc.

Another reason would be that JNI is horrible and if you need to mix your app with native code you are out of luck.

Is the Go FFI any better? How does it interact with the garbage collector? What aspects of the JNI are horrible in your mind (I have a few in mind as well) and how does the Go FFI differ?

Re: Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

#12

Post by kyrra »

kasey_junk wrote: post #11
pmelendez wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason would be that JNI is horrible and if you need to mix your app with native code you are out of luck.

Is the Go FFI any better? How does it interact with the garbage collector? What aspects of the JNI are horrible in your mind (I have a few in mind as well) and how does the Go FFI differ?

The most common solution in go is to use cgo[0] when wanting to bind with another language. From C you can then do whatever you'd like. That's how people are interacting with OpenGL[1] or QT[2] for example. Though, it seems like most common use cases of Go are to stay within the libraries supported by the shipping library or 3rd party libraries written in pure Go.

[0] http://golang.org/cmd/cgo/

[1] https://github.com/go-gl/gl

[2] https://code.google.com/p/goqt/

Re: Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

#13

Post by taylodl »

Java isn't back, it simply never went away - it's the modern Cobol. It's a good environment for backend development. Free if you need it, support if you want, no vendor lock-in, no platform lock-in, a vibrant open-source community - there's a lot to like about this old dinosaur!

Re: Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

#14

Post by kasey_junk »

kyrra wrote: post #12
kasey_junk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the Go FFI any better? How does it interact with the garbage collector? What aspects of the JNI are horrible in your mind (I have a few in mind as well) and how does the Go FFI differ?

The most common solution in go is to use cgo[0] when wanting to bind with another language. From C you can then do whatever you'd like. That's how people are interacting with OpenGL[1] or QT[2] for example. Though, it seems like most common use cases of Go are to stay within the libraries supported by the shipping library or 3rd party libraries written in pure Go. [0] http://golang.org/cmd/cgo/ [1] https://github.com…

Right, but how is that different than JNI?

For instance one of the major complaints about the JNI is that adds a pretty high performance penalty to any native calls (and typically you want native calls when performance is important). Does Go's FFI not have this performance penalty? If not, why not?

Like with the JNI, Go's garbage collector needs to understand life cycle semantics of objects coming in/out of the native binding, how is this accomplished and does it do a good job? Does it complicate the garbage collection of other unrelated parts of the system?

Basically, if you are going to claim that the JNI is awful (and I think that is a valid claim) and then imply that Go's isn't, I'd like to know why that is.

Re: Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

#15

Post by mikko-apo »

taylodl wrote: post #13

Java isn't back, it simply never went away - it's the modern Cobol. It's a good environment for backend development. Free if you need it, support if you want, no vendor lock-in, no platform lock-in, a vibrant open-source community - there's a lot to like about this old dinosaur!

Actually back in 2012 Java wasn't that popular. Here's the language stats for the 200 teams 1.5 years ago:

  Ruby 28.4%  
  Python 27.5%
  Clojure 10.1%
  Java 9.2%
  CoffeeScript 8.3%
  Haskell 6.4%
  JavaScript 5.5%
  Scala 1.8%
  Go 1.8%
  Groovy 0.9%
This year Java rise and Ruby's drop are quite obvious when compared to the old stats.

Re: Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

#17

Post by mrinterweb »

The name of this article is definitely leading without context. For a competition that is focused on building a race car simulator, certain languages are going to be a better choice. If the competition was to build a web app, I'm pretty sure that C/C++ would not be high on that list, and Java would be ranked lower.

Re: Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

#18

Post by simonb »

mikko-apo wrote: post #15
taylodl wrote: post #13

Java isn't back, it simply never went away - it's the modern Cobol. It's a good environment for backend development. Free if you need it, support if you want, no vendor lock-in, no platform lock-in, a vibrant open-source community - there's a lot to like about this old dinosaur!

Actually back in 2012 Java wasn't that popular. Here's the language stats for the 200 teams 1.5 years ago: Ruby 28.4% Python 27.5% Clojure 10.1% Java 9.2% CoffeeScript 8.3% Haskell 6.4% JavaScript 5.5% Scala 1.8% Go 1.8% Groovy 0.9% This year Java rise and Ruby's drop are quite obvious when compared to the old stats.

Considering the difference in sample size and make-up, the latest results just show the competition is gaining broader appeal and with it more mainstream languages start to dominate.

Re: Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

#19

Post by mikko-apo »

mrinterweb wrote: post #17

The name of this article is definitely leading without context. For a competition that is focused on building a race car simulator, certain languages are going to be a better choice. If the competition was to build a web app, I'm pretty sure that C/C++ would not be high on that list, and Java would be ranked lower.

Hi!

Unfortunately there's quite a bit of context behind those statistics that doesn't fit in to the title nicely.

I suspect that mentioning just HWO or Hello World Open or real time race car AI coding competition is not enough either. Do you have any suggestions on what would be a good title?

Re: Java is back? Programming language trends for 2345 teams

#20

Post by pnathan »

BaconJuice wrote: post #3
higherpurpose wrote: post #2

Android...I'm still hoping Google will soon focus on Go and deprecate the usage of Java language for Android.

Is there a specific reason on why? Just curious?

I'm not an Android programmer, but I hear that the Dalvik-based Java is Java 6ish, and will likely stay that way, while Java (from Oracle) moves forward. Much bad has been said about Java 6. So from that perspective, one might hope for a change.
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