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Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

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Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#11

Post by dschobel »

jhancock wrote: post #5

"Make a boatload of money. Pay your taxes. Lots of taxes. Hire people. Train people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services. Pay more taxes." Don't most wealthy people hire lawyers and lobbyists to help them not pay taxes? Don't they also move jobs overseas to reduce how much they pay to their own economy? Cuban seems to be living in a dreamworld.

People don't move jobs abroad. Corporations (with a legal mandate to make as much profit for their shareholders as possible) move jobs abroad.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#12

Post by noelchurchill »

I'm almost certain there there may be flaws in this though but:

Isn't there a limited monetary supply at any given time? So the richer I get, the less rich other people become. Even after I pay rents and salaries and everything else, if I'm richer than I was before, then there is less wealth available for everyone else.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#13

Post by dschobel »

jsackmann wrote: post #8
dschobel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if they pay taxes and buy goods and services, why should it matter if the wealth is self-made or inherited?

Most self-made rich people get there by (I'll bet you've heard this before...) making something people want. It's a rare buyer who buys something for $20 and values it at exactly $20 -- most buyers think it's worth a little more, or a lot more. That difference means that most purchases are not only beneficial to the maker/inventor (who is making money on the transaction), but also to the buyer (who believes their lif…

You're telling me that the guy who founded girls gone wild (and became fabulously wealthy thereby) did more good than someone like Eunice Shriver who never held a paid job in her life?

The bottom line is that it's infinitely more important what you do with your wealth than whether it was handed to you or you earned it.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#14

Post by jonallanharper »

"[when that tax bill comes your thought should be]... a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you."

Right, so I bust my ass in school, non-paid internships, contracting as much as possible, and 50 hour work weeks on my startup... and the reason I'm making money is b/c I'm more "fortunate" than the slob who is still playing video games in college after 6 years and the idiot who chooses to have kids he can't afford?

OK, got it... making wise choices makes you "fortunate"... and it's "unfortunate" when idiots who make poor decisions just don't make quite enough money to afford cigarettes, bling for his car, and health insurance.

Another serious flaw in this article, besides his inept philosophy: money stolen from us by the government is not "helping to support millions of americans"... it's being completely wasted by GovCo, for the most part, or at minimum used very inefficiently.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#15

Post by jhancock »

dschobel wrote: post #11
jhancock wrote: post #5

"Make a boatload of money. Pay your taxes. Lots of taxes. Hire people. Train people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services. Pay more taxes." Don't most wealthy people hire lawyers and lobbyists to help them not pay taxes? Don't they also move jobs overseas to reduce how much they pay to their own economy? Cuban seems to be living in a dreamworld.

People don't move jobs abroad. Corporations (with a legal mandate to make as much profit for their shareholders as possible) move jobs abroad.

"a legal mandate to make as much profit for their shareholders as possible".

I have never seen a law that says such a thing. Shareholders get to vote respective to the rights of their share class...That's about it. Other than embezzlement and other forms of fraud, a company can do as they like.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#16

Post by phamilton »

noelchurchill wrote: post #12

I'm almost certain there there may be flaws in this though but: Isn't there a limited monetary supply at any given time? So the richer I get, the less rich other people become. Even after I pay rents and salaries and everything else, if I'm richer than I was before, then there is less wealth available for everyone else.

http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html

he presents a great example of a couple of friends with beat up cars....

If 4 guys all have old beaters worth 1000 each. in total they have $4000 split evenly. Each has 25% of the wealth. If one guy goes, and decides to fix up his car, and his car is suddenly worth $3000, then suddenly he has 50% of the wealth, and the other three guys only have 16%. But the face value of the other three cars did not change.

That's what screws up the old 80-20 rule... you think it's unfair until you realize that the 20% created most of the wealth they control.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#17

Post by pragmatic »

noelchurchill wrote: post #12

I'm almost certain there there may be flaws in this though but: Isn't there a limited monetary supply at any given time? So the richer I get, the less rich other people become. Even after I pay rents and salaries and everything else, if I'm richer than I was before, then there is less wealth available for everyone else.

If that were the case, we wouldn't have any more wealth that we did when the country was founded.

Don't confuse wealth with money.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#18

Post by jhancock »

pchristensen wrote: post #6
jhancock wrote: post #5

"Make a boatload of money. Pay your taxes. Lots of taxes. Hire people. Train people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services. Pay more taxes." Don't most wealthy people hire lawyers and lobbyists to help them not pay taxes? Don't they also move jobs overseas to reduce how much they pay to their own economy? Cuban seems to be living in a dreamworld.

They pay much more in taxes despite the fact that they do this. By "pay more taxes" he means that the more money you make, the more taxes you have to pay. I'm sure that if you asked him, he'd say it's also your duty to pay as little tax as required.

Have you been keeping up with UBS private banking trial? Many wealthy have access to loopholes or simply hide behind legal and banking confidentiality to illegally hide wealth.

Sure, most wealthy pay more on an absolute scale. Not always so on a relative scale.

Cuban's core rational is that rich people make things move, shape change. I agree somewhat. So it follows that if they make less efficient things more efficient, then removing all tax loopholes and aggressively going after illegal tax behavior would force these wonderful, really smart rich people to make the tax system and government spending of it more efficient. As long as they have a way around paying, they have no incentive to make the tax usage more efficient.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#19

Post by dschobel »

zackattack wrote: post #10
dschobel wrote: post #7

and your 3rd [thought] should be a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you. So just to clarify-- if you become successful, it was a combination of hard work and good fortune but if don't become successful, it was just poor fortune?

I think so. Consciousness is a gift through fortune. Through consciousness, you eventually come to a realization that you should work hard and endeavor to become successful. The less fortunate never reach such a level of consciousness.

I agree that both are necessary but insufficient conditions independently but I've always been irked by the fact that the hard work/motivation part is always immediately dropped when you talk about average working stiffs.

It's like some bizarre fear that by admitting that some people are simply feckless and/or unmotivated you risk marginalizing everyone hasn't "made it" whereas in reality incentives are a huge part of the productivity equation (as anyone with a knowledge of basic economics can attest).

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#20

Post by jonallanharper »

zackattack wrote: post #10
dschobel wrote: post #7

and your 3rd [thought] should be a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you. So just to clarify-- if you become successful, it was a combination of hard work and good fortune but if don't become successful, it was just poor fortune?

I think so. Consciousness is a gift through fortune. Through consciousness, you eventually come to a realization that you should work hard and endeavor to become successful. The less fortunate never reach such a level of consciousness.

Making a wise decision is a choice.

And, essentially the choice is whether to think or not to think.

The results of that choice are not a random twist of reality that's foisted on an individual... the results are the real and logical outcomes that can be expected using the application of probability.

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