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Growing-ups

aeon.co

11–20 of 80 posts

Re: Growing-ups

#11
It wouldn't be too hard to argue that the Baby Boomers are strange. Not Gen X, Y and Z.

Until the 1950s, young people in the west were expected to live with their parents until they married and settled down. Just crack open a Victorian novel. (A few HNers have noted that this is true in India, China and Japan; but it was also true in the west.)

This changed all at one and all of a sudden under the Baby Boomers. Young people left home earlier, travelled the world, experimented with drugs. Let's forget that the Baby Boomers were responsible for psychedelia, the protest movement and flower power.

Here's what I'm saying: The Baby Boomers were a blip, premeditated by the astronomical rise of the USA in the global economy. Money and jobs were everywhere all of a sudden, endowing people (and especially young people) with the new freedom to experiment. Something that is not true now: We're facing increased global competition from the East and the west's manufacturing base has been hollowed out.

In terms of global and Western culture they were a non-stereotypical blip, the result of very particular and unusual economic and social conditions, a few flicks of the second hand on the our cultural watch.

So, are the Baby Boomers justified in criticising this generation for returning to former cultural values and habits?

Personally, I don't think so. It's hard not to feel it smacks of myopia, of judging others through the wrong side of the binoculars.

Re: Growing-ups

#12
Only had time to skim the article, but the section on work caught my eye. Like a lot of people I was fairly dissatisfied with my early career, but, luckily, as a programmer my job had some future prospects worth obtaining. I now really like what I do, and I've learned a bit about the nature of work. A few things come to mind:

0. The more competent you are at something, the more interesting it becomes. Expecting your first job to be interesting is setting yourself up for disappointment.

1. Autonomy, at least for me, is really important.

2. Nobody hires someone else to do the most interesting work available.

3. The best jobs aren't advertised. Visibility, or self-promotion, is important to some degree.

The awesome thing about computing is the capital costs are so low you can short circuit a lot of the career progression. You'll probably still make a mess of your first N years, which is why venture capital was invented ;-)

Re: Growing-ups

#13
post #4

I don't know if this is a "new" stage of life or rather a return to an earlier way of life. The whole phenomenon of kids leaving the house at 18, moving across the country, and not coming home again is fairly recent and fairly unique to the Western world. My wife and I are "grown ups" in the sense that we both are done with grad school, have professional jobs, and have a kid. Yet, my mom lives with us during the week…

> [Millenials] take [their parents] on job interviews for support

No wonder my generation can't get a damn job.

Re: Growing-ups

#14
You now what this article needs? More cowbell! I mean graphs!

This is a social phenomenon being critiqued using self-reported social scoring without tying it back to either theoretical or applied economic models.

If large swaths are asked fairly banal "Will you get what you want out of life?" questions with waaaaaay more rigorous subjective and practical analysis a bigger picture can't be assessed.

Elders "ridiculing," which is really a cynical take on what people older than adult children are doing, are expressing some insight into the pitfalls of delayed productive income acquisition. This article also flies in the face of trends that HN loves.

We've seen articles questioning and advocating against ageism, as if this was somehow unique to HN-fields of interest. Whether it is pop music, high art, math, or technology (or many other fields), the people who "make a difference" and live those envious lives of freedom to walk the path to becoming all-stars in their field and/or lives... those are young people.

Sure, some fields require great levels of extended experience or knowledge only acquirable through time, but the people getting everything out of life most frequently start early with a passionate drive for exactly what they will become.

The ascendant efforts of the young from about 18-30 is vital, innovative, and disruptive. I dislike the "disrupt everything!" mantra that leads the naive into the ditch. Fail fast can easily lead to lost opportunities to establish strong financial and technical (or creative) foundations that enable the later bloomers their time in the sun.

It's tough at the top and there are only so many who can get there now or ever. For the rest, it's best to be able to get productive to start saving early to establish a life where you can get ENOUGH out of life to not hit some anxious or depressive state later when you see doors closing to attaining EVERYTHING.

It's efficient to be able to minimize suffering as you go versus rolling the dice that you will suddenly find a calling later.

Feast upon life to learn everything you can. Deconstruct suffering and you'll find ways big and small to constantly create a life that you wouldn't trade for some amorphous "everything." The destination (goals) is usually only a milestone in the journey you are already engaged in. "If you don't stop to look around once in a while, you might miss it."

Re: Growing-ups

#16
post #14

You now what this article needs? More cowbell! I mean graphs! This is a social phenomenon being critiqued using self-reported social scoring without tying it back to either theoretical or applied economic models. If large swaths are asked fairly banal "Will you get what you want out of life?" questions with waaaaaay more rigorous subjective and practical analysis a bigger picture can't be assessed. Elders "ridiculing…

> The ascendant efforts of the young from about 18-30 is vital, innovative, and disruptive.

It's important, but if you look out your window, the world that exists out there was designed and built mostly by people over 30. There are some geniuses that were most prolific in their 20's (Einstein's miracle year was at 26), but most people who are awarded the nobel prize do their most important work from 30-50 (http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111107/full/news.2011.632.ht...). Picasso started developing cubism around the age of 30, Braque at about the same time.

The young have particular relevance in the area of entertainment (pop music, Facebook), largely because so much entertainment is targeted at the young. They also have particular importance in the area of mathematics. But the kind of day-to-day innovation that makes the world go around is a process of stepping on the shoulders of those who came before. And it's experienced people who understand what came before who do that most efficiently.

Re: Growing-ups

#17
"Adulthood is full of onerous responsibilities, as all of us who have been there for a while know well: going to work every day, making the meals, keeping the household reasonably clean and orderly, paying the bills."

That's the bar for onerous, now? And this is an attitude we, as parents and as society, are obligated to encourage, support, and indulge?

Re: Growing-ups

#18
post #15

Let me know when they have a spouse, child, and mortgage. That's the dividing line, as far as I can tell.

What precisely is it about having a child and having a mortgage that qualifies someone as "grown-up"?

(I'm speaking as someone who has a wife, a kid and a house bought outright).

Re: Growing-ups

#19
If you are an "emerging adult" at age 30, then there is a problem. Further, the author of this article claiming that these so called "emerging adults" are not lazy or self-entitled is ridiculous. It is clearly a case of "first world problems". The mere fact that these "emerging adults" have the luxury of living "on the dole" (whether parental or governmental) while they "figure out what they want to do with their lives" into their late 20s and early 30s is a clear case of self-entitlement.

If you don't have a place to live, food to eat, and shelter ... you "emerge" as an adult pretty quickly and figure out what you "want to do with your life" by DOING WORK you don't want to do to get said food, and shelter (i.e., to survive).

What is the saying? An absence of alternatives clears the mind marvelously.

Re: Growing-ups

#20
post #5
post #4

I don't know if this is a "new" stage of life or rather a return to an earlier way of life. The whole phenomenon of kids leaving the house at 18, moving across the country, and not coming home again is fairly recent and fairly unique to the Western world. My wife and I are "grown ups" in the sense that we both are done with grad school, have professional jobs, and have a kid. Yet, my mom lives with us during the week…

That makes sense; to oversimplify somewhat, the boomers tended to be really crap as parents, resulting in a generation (my generation, more or less) who are absolutely adamant that they won't inflict the same on their own kids. This seems to have resulted in a close and strongly nurturing, if at times somewhat smothering, parenting style, which in turn gave rise to the millennials, who seem by and large to have much…

> the [_] tended to be really crap as parents, resulting in a generation ([_], more or less) who are absolutely adamant that they won't inflict the same on their own kids

Hmmmm. That sentiment may be less unique than you realize.

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