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Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

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Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#11

Post by jes »

danbruc wrote: post #9
tejay wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to be an older post, but I think what the original author meant was that hard work alone isn't a sufficient condition for success (I'd argue it is a necessary one, though). The real answer is there probably isn't a sufficient condition for success, but hard work in pursuit of your own goals (rather a manager's) increases the likelihood of a positive outcome. Still, I'd have gone a step further. 'Career'…

Hard work is not important, good results are. That's a very different thing.

I think hard work is a necessary precursor to good results. Although, that hard work may not be of the kind most people associate with office work of the past.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#12

Post by judk »

danbruc wrote: post #9
tejay wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to be an older post, but I think what the original author meant was that hard work alone isn't a sufficient condition for success (I'd argue it is a necessary one, though). The real answer is there probably isn't a sufficient condition for success, but hard work in pursuit of your own goals (rather a manager's) increases the likelihood of a positive outcome. Still, I'd have gone a step further. 'Career'…

Hard work is not important, good results are. That's a very different thing.

That's non-responsive. We know what the deaired outputs are. The question is what are the necessary inputs.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#14

Post by hnnewguy »

michaelochurch wrote: post #10

It's easier to call out bad and outdated advice (Welch's) than to offer good advice, which the OP doesn't. The problem with Welch's advice is that it's what successful people say , not what they do. You should pay attention to what unsuccessful people say and know (they're the ones who know the organization's true character) but what the successful people do . Take knowledge from the losers, but copy the actions (oft…

>"They see it as a challenge to their turf."

This is a good point. While I believe the "system", in general, works to get people where they need to go and build the right products and services, the internal politics on a person-to-person basis are essentially random; you never know what you're going to get when you step foot in an enterprise. And the associated costs of having a "bad" manager are high.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#15

Post by smtddr »

Here's how I think of it.

Smashing your shoulder against a heavy metal vault door as hard as you can over and over, hoping someone at the other side will eventually hear you and open the door is a waste of time. It results in burn-out with nearly no hope of progress.

Instead, you should examine the door and try to open it yourself with a very deliberate attempts of sound reasoning based on where the weak points of the door may be. And after awhile, you may even discover that you can walk around it... or maybe that door isn't blocking the path you should be on to begin with.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#16

Post by danbruc »

jes wrote: post #11
danbruc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard work is not important, good results are. That's a very different thing.

I think hard work is a necessary precursor to good results. Although, that hard work may not be of the kind most people associate with office work of the past.

Fair point, hard work is not well-defined. I interpreted and meant it in the sense of throwing a lot of working hours at the problem. And I think this is not necessary for good results and may actually be counterproductive in some cases.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#17

Post by mildtrepidation »

michaelochurch wrote: post #10

It's easier to call out bad and outdated advice (Welch's) than to offer good advice, which the OP doesn't. The problem with Welch's advice is that it's what successful people say , not what they do. You should pay attention to what unsuccessful people say and know (they're the ones who know the organization's true character) but what the successful people do . Take knowledge from the losers, but copy the actions (oft…

Somehow you've decided that, despite labeling yourself unsuccessful, people should pay attention to what you say. The only support I see you making for this is citing your IQ, which is meaningless.

You obviously believe you're telling people things that work, and the attempt to help is something I'm sure people appreciate. But based on what you're saying here, either you don't follow that advice, you don't understand it well enough to apply it correctly, or you do apply it correctly it's actually bad advice. So unless you're learning from what successful people have done (not just said), you're offering unproven advice, and even if you are, you're offering advice you don't seem to understand.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#18

Post by wrongc0ntinent »

jes wrote: post #11
danbruc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard work is not important, good results are. That's a very different thing.

I think hard work is a necessary precursor to good results. Although, that hard work may not be of the kind most people associate with office work of the past.

For my part, I think so is boredom.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#19

Post by typicalbender »

tejay wrote: post #7
sarreph wrote: post #2

There's no real alternative offered here. I understand there's a whole 'open' and 'small' world out there and I can learn lessons from my peers, but if I'm not supposed to be 'working hard for my boss' in the modern corporate world, what am I supposed to be doing to 'get there eventually'?

This appears to be an older post, but I think what the original author meant was that hard work alone isn't a sufficient condition for success (I'd argue it is a necessary one, though). The real answer is there probably isn't a sufficient condition for success, but hard work in pursuit of your own goals (rather a manager's) increases the likelihood of a positive outcome. Still, I'd have gone a step further. 'Career'…

In the article the author mentions that hard work is table stakes, meaning everyone is working hard but you need to do something different to actually get ahead and stand out among your other hard working peers.

Re: Work Hard You'll Get There Eventually (hint: no you won't)

#20

Post by pekk »

judk wrote: post #12
danbruc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard work is not important, good results are. That's a very different thing.

That's non-responsive. We know what the deaired outputs are. The question is what are the necessary inputs.

In that case, "more and more hours" is often not a necessary input
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