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Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

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Re: Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

#11

Post by shanselman »

mattmanser wrote: post #10
NicoJuicy wrote: post #4

This is actually pretty awesome. I liked package managers (using linux and Windows on dualboot), one of the best tools for Windows is Cygwin (using Linux commands in Windows).. Where i can automate a lot of (manual) work. It seems to me that Microsoft is going all-in on open-source and flexibility. If you are using Asp.Net, you should check out Owin and project Helios - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/webdev/archive/2014/02/…

/ranty Ahhh, Owin and Helios perhaps explain why the ASP.Net team are starting to feel like they are losing the plot. Trying to put any of their new stuff into existing projects is a complete nightmare. Their new features are inflexible and brittle. WebAPI feels alien. Routing is getting more and more complicated instead of simpler. And the new APIs just 'feel' wrong, as if they've been written by programmers who don…

MVC5 uses AttributeRouting. Just put the routing on the controllers. No need for a routing table. (or routes.rb ;) )

ASP.Net Identity 2 is just that, easy and extensible membership.

Owin requests also give you what you're asking for also.

Don't like the S, change it? lowercaseroutes=true.

;)

Oh, and just to be snarky, the "programmers who don't understand HTTP" were lead by Henrik Nielsen, author of the HTTP spec, used to work for Tim Berners-Lee. ;)

Re: Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

#12

Post by shanselman »

mands wrote: post #3

I wonder how this compares to PsGet ( http://psget.net ) - or is it simply a cmd-line wrapper around Chocolatey?

It's a plugin, but a cleanroom implementation of the protocol and file format of Chocolatey. It's not shelling out. They are side by side and compatible.

Re: Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

#14

Post by mattmanser »

shanselman wrote: post #11
mattmanser wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/ranty Ahhh, Owin and Helios perhaps explain why the ASP.Net team are starting to feel like they are losing the plot. Trying to put any of their new stuff into existing projects is a complete nightmare. Their new features are inflexible and brittle. WebAPI feels alien. Routing is getting more and more complicated instead of simpler. And the new APIs just 'feel' wrong, as if they've been written by programmers who don…

MVC5 uses AttributeRouting. Just put the routing on the controllers. No need for a routing table. (or routes.rb ;) ) ASP.Net Identity 2 is just that, easy and extensible membership. Owin requests also give you what you're asking for also. Don't like the S, change it? lowercaseroutes=true. ;) Oh, and just to be snarky, the "programmers who don't understand HTTP" were lead by Henrik Nielsen, author of the HTTP spec, us…

Ach, I just needed to release a pressure valve. I think I'm mentally getting ready to abandon ASP.Net soon in all honesty, it's such a mess.

And just because you can make a car doesn't make you a great race-driver ;)

EDIT: WTF is going on with downvotes this week? If you don't agree with me, reply, don't down-vote.

A spec designer of HTML, which no sane person can claim isn't riddled with bad design decisions, is not magically a great programmer too

Re: Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

#15

Post by NicoJuicy »

mattmanser wrote: post #10
NicoJuicy wrote: post #4

This is actually pretty awesome. I liked package managers (using linux and Windows on dualboot), one of the best tools for Windows is Cygwin (using Linux commands in Windows).. Where i can automate a lot of (manual) work. It seems to me that Microsoft is going all-in on open-source and flexibility. If you are using Asp.Net, you should check out Owin and project Helios - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/webdev/archive/2014/02/…

/ranty Ahhh, Owin and Helios perhaps explain why the ASP.Net team are starting to feel like they are losing the plot. Trying to put any of their new stuff into existing projects is a complete nightmare. Their new features are inflexible and brittle. WebAPI feels alien. Routing is getting more and more complicated instead of simpler. And the new APIs just 'feel' wrong, as if they've been written by programmers who don…

I actually haven't met anyone who thought like you.

WebApi feels great and respects the HTTP spec (PUT, DELETE, UPDATE, POST,GET) and even the OData spec is compliant and after all, it's very fast to implement WebAPI and OData.

The .Net (mostly Asp.Net) is evolving fast for technologies like SignalR en OWIN.. And actually that's great.

You could still use webforms if you want, but i woudn't recommend that.

Most people hate change, but considering the (positive[subjective]) changes, they have done.. I think it's awesome and liberating.

OWIN has a improved authentication implementation, which has been a long requested feature for Asp.Net. For example, when you wanted to customize the Authentication implementation (don't remember the interface), you had to implement all of the methods (ForgetPass, EmailPass, ...). OWIN fixes that also (which was hard because of their former implementation)!

The only way it seems like more hassle/mess, is because there are more DLL's being imported, but i don't care because i know the reason behind it :)

Re: Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

#16

Post by mattmanser »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #15
mattmanser wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/ranty Ahhh, Owin and Helios perhaps explain why the ASP.Net team are starting to feel like they are losing the plot. Trying to put any of their new stuff into existing projects is a complete nightmare. Their new features are inflexible and brittle. WebAPI feels alien. Routing is getting more and more complicated instead of simpler. And the new APIs just 'feel' wrong, as if they've been written by programmers who don…

I actually haven't met anyone who thought like you. WebApi feels great and respects the HTTP spec (PUT, DELETE, UPDATE, POST,GET) and even the OData spec is compliant and after all, it's very fast to implement WebAPI and OData. The .Net (mostly Asp.Net) is evolving fast for technologies like SignalR en OWIN.. And actually that's great. You could still use webforms if you want, but i woudn't recommend that. Most peopl…

I think you fundamentally misunderstood me, I'm not against change.

I love MVC. Webforms is a complete travesty anyone still using it for new projects is mad. I never understood why Scott Gu defended it, it's a bad choice in the modern world.

I do not love where they're taking it though, which is to a place of no choice and bad design decisions.

REST is a bad design decision in my opinion. If you love it, fine, but don't force me to have only 4 methods on my classes. Strict REST doesn't make sense to me, it never has and never will. Most of the APIs I love using don't follow strict REST designs in their APIs and in my opinion those APIs are much better than the ones that do.

Knockout.js is a bad design decision. Use it if you want. But it shouldn't start adding a load of cruft in my project every time I click 'Add View...' though.

Re: Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

#17

Post by NicoJuicy »

mattmanser wrote: post #16
NicoJuicy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually haven't met anyone who thought like you. WebApi feels great and respects the HTTP spec (PUT, DELETE, UPDATE, POST,GET) and even the OData spec is compliant and after all, it's very fast to implement WebAPI and OData. The .Net (mostly Asp.Net) is evolving fast for technologies like SignalR en OWIN.. And actually that's great. You could still use webforms if you want, but i woudn't recommend that. Most peopl…

I think you fundamentally misunderstood me, I'm not against change. I love MVC. Webforms is a complete travesty anyone still using it for new projects is mad. I never understood why Scott Gu defended it, it's a bad choice in the modern world. I do not love where they're taking it though, which is to a place of no choice and bad design decisions. REST is a bad design decision in my opinion. If you love it, fine, but d…

I do not understand why you don't like REST ? It's been designed with the HTTP protocol simultaneously and it's how you should develop things for an API : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_state_transfer...

You are not limited to 4 methods, there are only 4 methods of altering data (eg. CRUD (create, read, update and delete))? Recently, they introduced batch support (i could have used that 3 months ago though :P)

Errors? Return a standard HTTP Code :)

Knockout is optional, it's a template to start with. Want to do it yourself? Create an empty project, use one on Github/Codeplex, import an extensions with custom scaffolders (mvc scaffold) or go and create your own with T4 templates, i have done it myselve thanks to some info on Scott Hanselman's blog: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ModifyingTheDefaultCodeGenerat...

PS. Kinda curious which API's you are referring to?

Re: Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

#18

Post by Already__Taken »

callesgg wrote: post #6

While I myself wold newer use windows for anything unless there was no other way, I hope that the stuff that Microsoft is doing might influence some windows people to start doing stuff the "right" way.

Much of this stuff is coming from the Azure people working with the Puppet and Chef people to get the tools needed into windows via powershell I guess.

Re: Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

#19

Post by NicoJuicy »

shanselman wrote: post #11
mattmanser wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/ranty Ahhh, Owin and Helios perhaps explain why the ASP.Net team are starting to feel like they are losing the plot. Trying to put any of their new stuff into existing projects is a complete nightmare. Their new features are inflexible and brittle. WebAPI feels alien. Routing is getting more and more complicated instead of simpler. And the new APIs just 'feel' wrong, as if they've been written by programmers who don…

MVC5 uses AttributeRouting. Just put the routing on the controllers. No need for a routing table. (or routes.rb ;) ) ASP.Net Identity 2 is just that, easy and extensible membership. Owin requests also give you what you're asking for also. Don't like the S, change it? lowercaseroutes=true. ;) Oh, and just to be snarky, the "programmers who don't understand HTTP" were lead by Henrik Nielsen, author of the HTTP spec, us…

Scott, while you here, can i get your opinion on OData and the future? You probably have some insights i'm not aware of.

(noticed some changes on their website recently)

I wanted to use it to implement my API, but i got kinda "scared" knowing that Netflix changed from OData to something else. Any examples of popular API's using OData for example?

Re: Windows Management Framework V5 Preview

#20

Post by Already__Taken »

gnoway wrote: post #8

Am I reading correctly that this is a 2012R2-specific feature? Thanks, but what am I supposed to do for the rest of my Windows infrastructure?

WMF 4.0 with PS 4.0 and DSC etc are available down to windows 7 I imagine this will be the same.
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