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Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

benjamingilbert.net

11–20 of 73 posts

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#11
I think this is a lousy defense of Bitcoin. I cringe whenever I read "oh it's new technology of course people will be scared!" or worse yet, "you must be jealous because you didn't get in on the ground floor." I think it's a really cool technology but the economics don't make a lot of sense. There are a few major issues I see:

-What problem does it solve? Many claim that it's a more efficient way to transfer money, but after paying high spreads & fees on illiquid exchanges or a place like coinbase, it doesn't look so good. International wires are expensive but paying 30 bps each way in exchange fees plus enormous spread concessions to trade even relatively small amounts like $1mm USD are much more expensive.

-What backs it other than speculation? Scarcity itself does not imply value. I don't see a significant "bitcoin economy" out there. Yes, you can buy things with them, but most of these things are priced in dollars. Sellers are accepting bitcoins only because they can sell them for USD, EUR, etc. to speculators. They have no particular attachment to bitcoins themselves and could just as easily accept another crypto currency provided speculators were active enough in the market. How many people are paid a salary or renting an apartment for a fixed amount of BTC per month?

-Many bad actors in the market with little regulation. There have been numerous scams and untrustworthy exchanges out there. It's like taking a trip back to the depression-era bucket shops.

-Consumer unfriendly: the average "man on the street" can't secure his wallet file and even many technically sharp people have been ripped off. Non-reversible transactions aren't a positive for most users and requiring traders to use an escrow service further increases costs. Network can't handle high transaction volumes and sellers need to wait for confirmations or risk fraud, so the use case of everyone buying their morning coffee with bitcoin seems shaky.

-Extreme volatility and lack of liquidity make it a poor store of value or unit of record, two things that are extremely important in a currency. Yes most government issued currencies experience inflation, but I can keep my paycheck in the bank for months or years without its value changing wildly, and I know what a loaf of bread costs in USD within a tight range.

Some of these are fixable and I see some growth potential in micropayments or as a money transfer mechanism for people who don't have access to traditional financial institutions, but what is the general purpose use case? What can I do with bitcoin that I can't with paypal or even a bank account (many let you instantly transfer money these days for no/low fees to pay friends, landlords, etc.)?

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#12
post #9

I had more optimism for Bitcoin before I saw people so aggressively evangelize it. I think it has great potential as a digital currency but some people are making into what's almost a totem.

Well it is an innovative technology/platform that ranks up there with HTTP, html, tcp/ip, usenet, bittorent Nothing as interesting has come out since 90s, all we had since are "social networks" and "flappy bird" sigh

Yup, unfortunately libertarians and anarcho-capitalists have jumped on it like it's the solution to all bad government and a way to avoid taxation and have become religious about it. They're wrong, and completely nuts, but this isn't Bitcoin's fault.

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it is an innovative technology/platform that ranks up there with HTTP, html, tcp/ip, usenet, bittorent Nothing as interesting has come out since 90s, all we had since are "social networks" and "flappy bird" sigh

Yup, unfortunately libertarians and anarcho-capitalists have jumped on it like it's the solution to all bad government and a way to avoid taxation and have become religious about it. They're wrong, and completely nuts, but this isn't Bitcoin's fault.

They are wrong, the blockchain is public, it is very likely that a bitcoin like technology be used by state actors in future to create tightly controlled currencies!

Imagine a state being able to charge sales tax at the point of each transaction! Or more disturbingly know exactly who buys what for how much and when if tied together with government issued ids and wallets. Or instantly calculate taxes due on income.

Its actually quite scary :(

In fact bitcoin technology or derivative could be used unfortunately to take even more control from people and economies! Its probably a good thing that in most countries politicians would balk at this since they wont be able to get brown envelopes if everyone in the state uses coins

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#14
post #9

I had more optimism for Bitcoin before I saw people so aggressively evangelize it. I think it has great potential as a digital currency but some people are making into what's almost a totem.

Well it is an innovative technology/platform that ranks up there with HTTP, html, tcp/ip, usenet, bittorent Nothing as interesting has come out since 90s, all we had since are "social networks" and "flappy bird" sigh

And smart phones, public GPS, public TOR, hybrid cars, HDMI, blu-ray, Wikipedia, widespread broadband, the Human Genome Project, etc.

To pretend that no good tech innovations have come out since the 90s is just willful ignorance.

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#15

I think this is a lousy defense of Bitcoin. I cringe whenever I read "oh it's new technology of course people will be scared!" or worse yet, "you must be jealous because you didn't get in on the ground floor." I think it's a really cool technology but the economics don't make a lot of sense. There are a few major issues I see: -What problem does it solve? Many claim that it's a more efficient way to transfer money, b…

I've thought that Bitcoin (or more likely, a future crypto currency) might be better served as a transaction backbone for payment processors, banks, and the like. It could still be used for transactions between two individuals, but the bulk of transactions would be for routine inter-bank processing.

This would have an effect of stabilizing the exchange rate, and could replace Fedwire/ACH for a large portion of transactions. However, I'm not convinced the current mining structure is optimal, and would certainly not be suitable for this usage.

I'm sure many Bitcoin advocates would disagree with me, but I believe that there should be some mechanism a la the federal reserve to stabilize the market and allow for reasonable inflation. I have no idea how this would be implemented from a technical standpoint, but I believe with some refinements, cryptocurrencies can serve a place in the economy, but I do not see them replacing the "fiat" by any means.

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#16

I think this is a lousy defense of Bitcoin. I cringe whenever I read "oh it's new technology of course people will be scared!" or worse yet, "you must be jealous because you didn't get in on the ground floor." I think it's a really cool technology but the economics don't make a lot of sense. There are a few major issues I see: -What problem does it solve? Many claim that it's a more efficient way to transfer money, b…

Two benefits that makes it all worthwhile: 1) you can transfer it to someone else (e.g. an heir) cost free, tax free, paperwork free, without the gov't even knowing you did it. Illegal, but you can do it and probably get away with it. 2) It can't be devalued by gov't action.

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#17

I think this is a lousy defense of Bitcoin. I cringe whenever I read "oh it's new technology of course people will be scared!" or worse yet, "you must be jealous because you didn't get in on the ground floor." I think it's a really cool technology but the economics don't make a lot of sense. There are a few major issues I see: -What problem does it solve? Many claim that it's a more efficient way to transfer money, b…

>What can I do with bitcoin that I can't with paypal or even a bank account (many let you instantly transfer money these days for no/low fees to pay friends, landlords, etc.)?

With bitcoin, you don't have to have a third party such as Paypal or your bank to transfer money over the internet. You don't have to trust a third party. It's very close to a face-to-face cash transfer, albeit with possibility of being traced by various methods, so not perfectly anonymous. Still far more anonymous than almost any other method.

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think 'icon' fits better.

I think you're right, icon is a better choice.

Particularly, I think Totem is a better choice.. you are backed by giants like Freud:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totem_and_Taboo

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, unfortunately libertarians and anarcho-capitalists have jumped on it like it's the solution to all bad government and a way to avoid taxation and have become religious about it. They're wrong, and completely nuts, but this isn't Bitcoin's fault.

They are wrong, the blockchain is public, it is very likely that a bitcoin like technology be used by state actors in future to create tightly controlled currencies! Imagine a state being able to charge sales tax at the point of each transaction! Or more disturbingly know exactly who buys what for how much and when if tied together with government issued ids and wallets. Or instantly calculate taxes due on income. It…

> instantly calculate taxes due on income

Uh, sign me up? The political complications of tax reform aside, return free filing would save millions of hours required for tax preparation, and it is estimated that between 8 and 60 million taxpayers would not need to file a return at all. And for the rest it would streamlined.

Of course, the IRS already knows 90% of your income information, without Bitcoin, because of 1099s, W-2s, etc.

Re: Bitcoin and Thoughts from Bill Gates

#20
The problem with bitcoin is that no one is using it for its intended purpose - to buy things. People are using it as an investment or are speculating on it, which is not the purpose of a currency.

What you end up with is the anemic system that exists right now, where no one is advancing the actual bitcoin cause, everyone is just setting up exchanges to make money from transactions.

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