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Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

nytimes.com

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Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#11

Post by maxerickson »

Aqueous wrote: post #5
jdonaldson wrote: post #3

Universities also privatize science through patents and IP. Research publications privatize research by bundling and charging exorbitant fees for journals and proceedings. Our generation doesn't have a NASA or Bell Labs. The closest thing to those outfits are vanity projects from billionaires... SpaceX, etc.

The only reason we have a shot at affordable commercial spaceflight, as well as an eventual affordable journey to Mars, is because of that vanity project. If it was left up to the public sector alone, I don't think we'll be able to go to Mars in 20 or 30 years. But this hasn't really changed. Even in NASA's hey day space missions weren't government-only projects - The space capsules and Saturn V were built by contrac…

I wonder about this. Is Tesla driving battery technology much (which is really sort of the key for EVs), or are they just putting themselves in a good position for when they get good enough?

I realize that they are creating demand for millions and millions of cells, but cell phones, tablets and laptops have been doing that for a decade now.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#12

Post by rjzzleep »

here's an anecdote from a german communication network professor i was sitting at lunch with.

as comparison, the pay for a professor here is 50k a year, but can be more. you heard that right, that's what a bsc in low pay southern states gets.

he said the following thing which made me rethink the whole thing a little:

"conversely i get to research anything i want to, and i don't have to worry about pleasing business with my research results"

germany though has a big problem of americanization like so many other countries.

i've heard of so many research in the us getting shut down, or the researchers discredited, because they pissed off the wrong company funding the department they were working for.

it's a double edged sword.

EDIT: it's funny this got downvoted. i was personally involved in evaluating software that was written for the DHS by a huge contractor SAIC. they paid 20+ million for that piece of junk, and my supervisor was scared of passing on the assessment, because they were scared we would lose opportunities on further grants(they were impressed by the assessment, apparently we were the only ones that did such a thorough assessment).

i never said professors in germany don't have to get research money or grants, but they are way less dependent on what outcome the industry dictates.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#13

Post by Aqueous »

maxerickson wrote: post #11
Aqueous wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason we have a shot at affordable commercial spaceflight, as well as an eventual affordable journey to Mars, is because of that vanity project. If it was left up to the public sector alone, I don't think we'll be able to go to Mars in 20 or 30 years. But this hasn't really changed. Even in NASA's hey day space missions weren't government-only projects - The space capsules and Saturn V were built by contrac…

I wonder about this. Is Tesla driving battery technology much (which is really sort of the key for EVs), or are they just putting themselves in a good position for when they get good enough? I realize that they are creating demand for millions and millions of cells, but cell phones, tablets and laptops have been doing that for a decade now.

I think that they are trying to find the lowest possible cost for current technology. Part of this is building their own factory, which is supposed to cut costs by, I've read, 30%. Chipping off a percent here, and a percent there, and making the process as efficient as possible could make things quite affordable quite quickly.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#14

Post by facepalm »

rjzzleep wrote: post #12

here's an anecdote from a german communication network professor i was sitting at lunch with. as comparison, the pay for a professor here is 50k a year, but can be more. you heard that right, that's what a bsc in low pay southern states gets. he said the following thing which made me rethink the whole thing a little: "conversely i get to research anything i want to, and i don't have to worry about pleasing business w…

Does it really work that way? My impression was that professors are constantly trying to raise money from the government. Instead of proving industry value, they have to convince bureaucrats that their ideas are worth pursuing. I think strong cases have been made that that's not the optimal way of allocating money for scientific research. For example: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/05/posi... (government funding is not good in pursuing wild ideas)

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#16

Post by angersock »

jrs99 wrote: post #15

I don't know why you would employ a science adviser who thinks that physics isn't "sexy." It's damn sexy. And anyone who really understands even a small amount of physics will think that physics is "sexy."

Erm, no?

Do you mean classical physics and mechanics, quantum mechanics (and if so, what branch), particle physics, solid-state physics, what?

You have to be more specific unless you want to come off as just another -~= Science! =~- people getting off to things they don't actually understand.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#17

Post by angersock »

rjzzleep wrote: post #12

here's an anecdote from a german communication network professor i was sitting at lunch with. as comparison, the pay for a professor here is 50k a year, but can be more. you heard that right, that's what a bsc in low pay southern states gets. he said the following thing which made me rethink the whole thing a little: "conversely i get to research anything i want to, and i don't have to worry about pleasing business w…

"conversely i get to research anything i want to" [that there is funding and no competition for].

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#18

Post by jrs99 »

angersock wrote: post #16
jrs99 wrote: post #15

I don't know why you would employ a science adviser who thinks that physics isn't "sexy." It's damn sexy. And anyone who really understands even a small amount of physics will think that physics is "sexy."

Erm, no? Do you mean classical physics and mechanics, quantum mechanics (and if so, what branch), particle physics, solid-state physics, what? You have to be more specific unless you want to come off as just another -~= Science! =~- people getting off to things they don't actually understand.

I guess I should be more specific and say statistical mechanics. As a science expert, I have to say the rest is truly boring.

Re: Billionaires With Big Ideas Are Privatizing American Science

#20

Post by anigbrowl »

rjzzleep wrote: post #12

here's an anecdote from a german communication network professor i was sitting at lunch with. as comparison, the pay for a professor here is 50k a year, but can be more. you heard that right, that's what a bsc in low pay southern states gets. he said the following thing which made me rethink the whole thing a little: "conversely i get to research anything i want to, and i don't have to worry about pleasing business w…

Is there something missing from this post, like what the German guy is earning? You seem to be making a comparison without one of the comparators.
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