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Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

blogs.nature.com

11–20 of 34 posts

Re: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

#11
post #8

Everyone gives Science, Cell and Nature way too much credit. They are flashy, but tend to have less substance than other journals. Their retraction rate is also much higher. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3187237/figure/F...

I'm not even going to go into why the correlation between influence and retraction rate exists, that should be blatantly obvious to any with a background in any of the sciences. Also, we want retractions, it means science works.

Re: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

#13
post #9

Japan has a strange culture: Their scientific funding is based largely on hanging out naked at a hot spring with the guy that controls the budget.

And in US/Europe it would be going to the same parties as the guy who controls the budget. I don't see any difference in substance.

Re: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

#14
post #11
post #8

Everyone gives Science, Cell and Nature way too much credit. They are flashy, but tend to have less substance than other journals. Their retraction rate is also much higher. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3187237/figure/F...

I'm not even going to go into why the correlation between influence and retraction rate exists, that should be blatantly obvious to any with a background in any of the sciences. Also, we want retractions, it means science works.

Retractions are good in when the original paper was the best efforts of its authors. This kind of big-news nonsense paper is far less forgivable.

Re: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

#15
post #2

Again the people who say Philosophy is dead to science I say UGH learn from history. Philosophy and Ethics are still the heart of progress. How many Scientific papers that were "peer reviewed" have we now learned that the science behind the scientific papers have seriously been lacking. The cost is in the suffering and deaths of patients who didn't get help needed that research would have found if they didn't have to…

A scientist would respond: How many ethical theories were accepted by contemporaries, only to later be shown to be flawed?

If you want to attribute deaths to bad science, then you must also attribute far more to bad philosophy.

Re: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

#16
PubPeer explains how their commenters helped identify some fraud there: http://blog.pubpeer.com/?p=117

So what's the role of Nature group here? Print colourful printouts of sloppily-reviewed papers? I feel somehow these "publishers" (basically, they're just glorified PDF repositories) aren't really worth the money they're getting.

Re: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

#17
Here is commentary from the group blog by science journalists Retraction Watch on this story, "Co-author of controversial acid STAP stem cell papers in Nature requests retraction: report":

http://retractionwatch.com/2014/03/10/co-author-of-controver...

Stem cell research is a "hot" research area, because it can be hyped as a cure-all, so we should all be especially skeptical of initial reports on new stem cell research. In general, we have to distinguish submissions to Hacker News based on press releases (there are way too many of those) from review articles by experienced researchers that digest the primary research done by a variety of researchers around the world. The latter kind of submission (a review article from a peer-reviewed journal or a book chapter from a practitioner's handbook) would be an excellent submission to Hacker News if it has a link that lives online for free reading, but it would also mean reading something longer than something that can be summed up with a one-line lt;dr summary. Otherwise, a thoughtful article by a science journalist who interviews scientists besides the scientists hyping a new discovery can be much better than a new "peer-reviewed" preliminary research finding. All too often, in our haste for "news" here about medical research, all the hackers here can be led astray about what is really established knowledge in medicine.

Re: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

#18
post #2

Again the people who say Philosophy is dead to science I say UGH learn from history. Philosophy and Ethics are still the heart of progress. How many Scientific papers that were "peer reviewed" have we now learned that the science behind the scientific papers have seriously been lacking. The cost is in the suffering and deaths of patients who didn't get help needed that research would have found if they didn't have to…

> Biased and mad

And sour grapes. And you are not doing any credit to Philosophers by making it sound like it's science vs philosophy. Or by dismissing everyone else's work from your armchair without showing any hint of your own work or any alternatives. And finally, we should listen to you because you have a Degree?

Re: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

#19
post #2

Again the people who say Philosophy is dead to science I say UGH learn from history. Philosophy and Ethics are still the heart of progress. How many Scientific papers that were "peer reviewed" have we now learned that the science behind the scientific papers have seriously been lacking. The cost is in the suffering and deaths of patients who didn't get help needed that research would have found if they didn't have to…

I don't understand your argument at all. What does philosophy have to do with any of this? Are you claiming that if more people were to study philosophy, this would make the world more "moral", leading to less scientific fraud?

I see things like this as part of the cost of doing more and more advanced research at a fast pace. You are bound to have a few misses, but all in all you still make progress.

Re: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted

#20
post #9

Japan has a strange culture: Their scientific funding is based largely on hanging out naked at a hot spring with the guy that controls the budget.

I would really love to see proof of this claim.

The funding in Japan flows through a senior researcher who organizes the research for an entire department. This is very different from the US where each PI applies to the funding agency (NSF, NIH...). In 2010 I attended a department level conference (~75 people) in Japan and the the Japanese graduate students explained that when you meet with someone for a few days you get to know them and their research, and then when you go to the hot springs you really get to know them. After all of the formal sessions the organizer would say, "Ok, now lets all go to the hot springs and discuss what we heard today". Clothing is not permitted in these "baths". The goal of the above post wasn't to make fun of the culture, but it does point out the system where friends of the lead researcher get a huge advantage. This system is also very hostile to women who are unable to participate in the part of the meeting where the real business happens.

If anyone knows this to be untrue please let me know.

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