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There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

lambdassociates.org

11–20 of 58 posts

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#11
"There is no such thing as free software."

This isn't true. It's just exaggerating to make a point.

As a counterexample, http://pysolar.org. I wrote the code for free, because I wanted the experience. You can have it for $0 under the GPL. That's free software.

The truth is more like: "Free software is often subsidized by governments or companies." But so what? So is proprietary software. With that revision, I don't see more than a poorly written rant.

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#12
post #3
post #2

Oh, my. It is free as in "freedom", you idiot, not free as in "gratis", RMS would tell you. And he would be right. You've debunked only your own misunderstanding of the problem...

I think you misunderstood the point he's trying to make. Here's the conclusion of the article: The problem is that FOSS is part of an equation that has never been properly balanced. The other part of the equation is an economic one and one that has not been thought through. Instead ad hoc and unconvincing explanations have been floated for why FOSS makes money when in fact, as presently constituted, it so often does…

pcof's point still stands. Freedom is about lowering barriers, barriers which cost money to otherwise bypass. FOSS provides off-the-shelf parts for software engineers. Even Microsoft has used FOSS code in Windows.

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#13
post #9

What an ass clown. So firstly, it's free as in freedom. We don't mean free as in cost. But secondly, if someone pays for some software to be developed and it solves their problem and then they give it away then it's truly free as in cost too. They paid money equivalent to the value they got from it, everyone else rides for free. And thirdly: ass clown.

I'll refute you by asking a simple question. If you sell software that you originally designed for your own use, does it not have a value?

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#14
post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood the point he's trying to make. Here's the conclusion of the article: The problem is that FOSS is part of an equation that has never been properly balanced. The other part of the equation is an economic one and one that has not been thought through. Instead ad hoc and unconvincing explanations have been floated for why FOSS makes money when in fact, as presently constituted, it so often does…

There is a model that deals with this kind of problem, it's called the ransom model (not the most ideal name but it gets the point across nicely). It was used successfully on blender, the basic idea is you build what you have to build closed source, the risk is yours. And then when you've built up a following you set your ransom price, the price that has to be met for you to open up the source. If the product is any…

That's actually a really interesting model. Here's the Wikipedia entry on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_pledge_system (redirect from ransom model)

It's not free as in beer though.

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#15
post #3
post #2

Oh, my. It is free as in "freedom", you idiot, not free as in "gratis", RMS would tell you. And he would be right. You've debunked only your own misunderstanding of the problem...

I think you misunderstood the point he's trying to make. Here's the conclusion of the article: The problem is that FOSS is part of an equation that has never been properly balanced. The other part of the equation is an economic one and one that has not been thought through. Instead ad hoc and unconvincing explanations have been floated for why FOSS makes money when in fact, as presently constituted, it so often does…

No he isn't.

If Company X gains $1,000,000 savings due to investing $700,000 in developing a piece of software, they have earned $300,000. Then, they open source the software, and improvements to it by outside contributors result in them saving another $500,000.

Then, Company Y adopts the software and uses it to save $2,000,000. They improve it as well, which results in them saving another $500,000 and Company X saving another $300,000.

Total profit: $3.8m

Compare this to the alternative:

Company X gains $1,000,000 savings due to investing $700,000 in developing a piece of software, they have earned $300,000. Then, they keep the software closed. No contributions are made by outside users.

Then, Company Y writes their own version of the software for $700,000 and uses it to save $1,500,000, less because they don't have the improvements made by outside contributors. They don't have the logic from Company X to combine with theirs, so they don't improve it, and they don't save any extra money. Company X doesn't save money either, since they don't get anything back.

Total profit: $1.1m

Everyone involved made more money in the first situation than the second, despite Company X giving up their source code to be used by other companies as well. This works completely fine under existing systems and requires nobody to arbitrarily throw money at open source for no potential gain.

Open source is the free-market solution to the problem of inefficiency due to competition--everyone implementing their own versions of software and in the end generating a worse result than if they had worked together.

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#16
He seems to be suggesting that the only economic model for software development is to sell it as a product. That might make sense if your business is selling software. The rest of us are in the business of designing websites, running universities and large enterprises, selling widgets etc. In other words, our business is making other kinds of stuff or just in providing services. In the course of running that business we need to use software. If there's free stuff (especially stuff that can be freely customized to fit my business) then great. If we improve it, we might give it back to the community and everyone benefits. Well, everyone, except that poor sap who's trying to sell the commercial software that doesn't benefit from the stream of incremental improvements that come from the community. Or maybe they've still got a better solution than the FOSS product. That's excellent and if they make money, more power to them! But there's nothing broken or wrong with the FOSS model and the writer doesn't offer much evidence to support his argument other than an anecdote about how Ubuntu from four years ago (!) didn't work for him. Sheesh.

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#17
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood the point he's trying to make. Here's the conclusion of the article: The problem is that FOSS is part of an equation that has never been properly balanced. The other part of the equation is an economic one and one that has not been thought through. Instead ad hoc and unconvincing explanations have been floated for why FOSS makes money when in fact, as presently constituted, it so often does…

Open source is a great thing, but I fear that it has led many to believe that they are entitled to the software (both the use and the source) they are using.

You should have access to the source of the software you use, according to FOSS advocates.

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#18
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood the point he's trying to make. Here's the conclusion of the article: The problem is that FOSS is part of an equation that has never been properly balanced. The other part of the equation is an economic one and one that has not been thought through. Instead ad hoc and unconvincing explanations have been floated for why FOSS makes money when in fact, as presently constituted, it so often does…

No he isn't. If Company X gains $1,000,000 savings due to investing $700,000 in developing a piece of software, they have earned $300,000. Then, they open source the software, and improvements to it by outside contributors result in them saving another $500,000. Then, Company Y adopts the software and uses it to save $2,000,000. They improve it as well, which results in them saving another $500,000 and Company X savi…

Another alternative is that a nimble startup creates a piece of software to solve the problem and sells it to 1000 companies at $10.000 a pop. This way the companies get their software even cheaper, and another beautiful startup is born.

With a contrived example you can prove anything :-)

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#19

"There is no such thing as free software." This isn't true. It's just exaggerating to make a point. As a counterexample, http://pysolar.org . I wrote the code for free, because I wanted the experience. You can have it for $0 under the GPL. That's free software. The truth is more like: "Free software is often subsidized by governments or companies." But so what? So is proprietary software. With that revision, I don't…

What about the opportunity cost? You paid for this code with your time, which otherwise, if you felt like it, you presumably could have used to earn money. If your time is worthless, then indeed the code costs nothing; is it? That's the point the author's making.

Re: There is no free software, only software that is paid for by somebody else.

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source is a great thing, but I fear that it has led many to believe that they are entitled to the software (both the use and the source) they are using.

You should have access to the source of the software you use, according to FOSS advocates.

You don't need access to the source. If you don't like how the software works, you have two options: (1) Don't buy the software, or (2) write new software.

My point was that many people feel they have a right to the source code. It's not a right at all, no matter what Stallman says.

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