What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen • Hacker News Board

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#11

Post by JetSpiegel » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 5:30 PM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #8

ape4 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, not all advice from the expert is correct. Maybe there is a good reason not to change the name.

While I'm all for the HN anti-expert contrarian commentary, let's take a moment to think about this. You, the owner of a failing business, have one view. Gordon Ramsay, the owner of one of the most successful high end restaurant empires in the world, after hearing your justifications, has another. With only this evidence, which view is most likely to be correct?

None, because both have speeches written by the same writers.

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#12

Post by gadders » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 5:31 PM UTC

It's quite instructive to watch the American and British versions of the same show.

The American version is like the British but with the volume turned up to 11 - more drama, more shouting, and more tears.

Also, everyone calls Gordon Ramsey "Chef Ramsey" which sounds wierd.

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#13

Post by mentos » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

> To start your own business you just need to send $500 to the Secretary of State's office and congratulations! You're what makes America great!

This reminds me of a scene from 'Searching for Bobby Fischer', http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v38lu0Bi0Kk, only two minutes but it has stuck with me ever since I watched it as a kid.

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#14

Post by smacktoward » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 5:37 PM UTC

stretchwithme wrote: post #3

A lot of the conflict on those shows is contrived. That show is almost like a procedural drama where the owner's hopeless, resists change, finally sees the light, and then all is set aright by the end. At least in the 5 episodes I've seen.

I would generally agree with this, but the one exception I would make would be for the original British version of Ramsay's show. (It was called "Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares"; they cut the title to just "Kitchen Nightmares" for the US version.)

That show, especially in the first couple of seasons, skipped the usual reality-show tropes and really dug in to the nitty-gritty elements of running a successful restaurant -- which it showed pretty clearly are the same as the elements of running any successful business: know your customers, watch your money, care about your work. There was real human drama in that show that you just don't see very often on TV.

Of course, then they brought it to America and threw all that insightful stuff out to make room for trumped-up shouting matches and canned sound effects of rattlesnakes. What a disappointment.

Both versions are up for streaming on Netflix, if you want to see what I mean; make sure to look for "Ramsay's" in the title to get the UK version. Watch the first episode of the first season and you'll understand the difference.

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#15

Post by peterwwillis » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 5:37 PM UTC

> As part of our No More Bullshit stance for 2014, we've become totally honest with everyone who contacts Ethercycle. Brutally honest. We tell people: Your non-responsive website is giving your audience a subpar experience. Your website is huge and slow and it's driving people away. That font is unreadable. Why are there so many steps in the checkout process? Where's your call to action? How does that make any sense? Why do you think that's going to work? Did you think about this at all?

The first few comments were constructive criticisms. The last three are just beating someone up, and are generally dick things to say. There's no excuse for being mean to someone who's asking for help.

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#16

Post by arcosdev » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 5:47 PM UTC

I think that this problem persists beyond individual business owners. There are all kinds of management types out there that love the idea of being in charge, but not any of the hard work involved in actually managing and leading.

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#17

Post by smacktoward » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 5:48 PM UTC

I think the author may be taking a misleading lesson away from these shows, because the businesses they focus on -- restaurants and bars, for instance -- are the sort of businesses people (mistakenly) think are glamorous and exciting, so they attract lots of clueless people. Many people daydream about quitting their job and owning a restaurant, mostly because they don't understand what owning a restaurant entails. They think instead that they have fun in restaurants, so running one would be even more fun; or that they like to cook for their family, so they'd like cooking on demand under time pressure for large numbers of strangers even more; and so on. They don't know what they're getting into until they've sunk their life savings into it.

It's a mistake, though, to assume that because these types of businesses attract dilettantes, that all types of businesses attract dilettantes. Once you get away from the "glamor" businesses, that happens much less. Nobody dreams of quitting their job and starting a waste management company; not unless they really care about waste management, at least. So it's not really a safe assumption that the ranks of small businesspeople are uniformly populated with flighty dilettantes.

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#18

Post by smacktoward » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 5:58 PM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #8

ape4 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, not all advice from the expert is correct. Maybe there is a good reason not to change the name.

While I'm all for the HN anti-expert contrarian commentary, let's take a moment to think about this. You, the owner of a failing business, have one view. Gordon Ramsay, the owner of one of the most successful high end restaurant empires in the world, after hearing your justifications, has another. With only this evidence, which view is most likely to be correct?

Or to Don Draper put it on Mad Men: "You've already tried your plan, and you're number four."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y4b-DEkIps

In other words: when you run a failing business, the only thing you know for certain is that keeping on doing what you've been doing will fail. Will a particular new plan work? Who knows. But you need to be open to doing something.

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#19

Post by binxbolling » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 6:17 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #17

I think the author may be taking a misleading lesson away from these shows, because the businesses they focus on -- restaurants and bars, for instance -- are the sort of businesses people (mistakenly) think are glamorous and exciting, so they attract lots of clueless people. Many people daydream about quitting their job and owning a restaurant, mostly because they don't understand what owning a restaurant entails. Th…

I think I can state with a high degree of confidence that the blog author was neither assuming nor suggesting that "the ranks of small businesspeople are uniformly populated with flighty dilettantes." Seems like a strawman critique of the article, although your larger points are very true (viz. "glamorous" businesses, motivations, etc).

Re: What Gordon Ramsay Taught Me About American Businessmen

#20

Post by joezydeco » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 6:22 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #17

I think the author may be taking a misleading lesson away from these shows, because the businesses they focus on -- restaurants and bars, for instance -- are the sort of businesses people (mistakenly) think are glamorous and exciting, so they attract lots of clueless people. Many people daydream about quitting their job and owning a restaurant, mostly because they don't understand what owning a restaurant entails. Th…

Bourdain had it right in Kitchen Confidential:

"Why would anyone who has worked hard, saved money, often been successful in other fields, want to pump their hard-earned cash down a hole that statistically, at least, will almost surely prove dry? ... The easy answer, of course, is ego. The classic example is the retired dentist who was always told he threw a great dinner party. 'You should open a restaurant,' his friends tell him. And our dentist believes them. He wants to get in the business-not to make money, not really, but to swan about the dining room signing dinner checks like Rick in Casablanca. And he'll have plenty of chance to sign dinner checks-when the deadbeat friends who told him what a success he'd be in the restaurant business keep coming by looking for freebies. All these original geniuses will be more than happy to clog up the bar, sucking down free drinks, taking credit for this bold venture-until the place starts running into trouble, at which point they dematerialize, shaking their heads at their foolish dentist who just didn't seem up to the job."

Although I also think the producers of these shows screen for volatile applicants and then stoke the egos of those same people so there's a fight ready to happen when Ramsey walks in the door.