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An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

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Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#11

Post by romanovcode »

seivan wrote: post #2

You want to design on iOS? Hire an engineer familiar with UIKit Mac OS? Appkit Web? JS,CSS & HTML. Etc etc. Basically only hire designers that can write their design. A .PSD isn't much value to you. Then again I'm getting more annoyed by so called UX experts or PSD-designers as time goes. Now, I am sure Brett who I'm quoting doesn't agree with me, but: "…these brilliant designers could not make real things. They coul…

Do you also expect bridge designers/architects to build those bridges for you?

Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#12

Post by talmand »

crazygringo wrote: post #6
seivan wrote: post #2

You want to design on iOS? Hire an engineer familiar with UIKit Mac OS? Appkit Web? JS,CSS & HTML. Etc etc. Basically only hire designers that can write their design. A .PSD isn't much value to you. Then again I'm getting more annoyed by so called UX experts or PSD-designers as time goes. Now, I am sure Brett who I'm quoting doesn't agree with me, but: "…these brilliant designers could not make real things. They coul…

Please. This attitude really needs to stop -- it's insulting to designers, because it implies their design skills aren't enough, and it's insulting to programmers, because it implies programming is so trivial that a designer should just be able to pick it up. Show some respect. If you think a PSD isn't of much value, you don't have a clue as to what design even is. It's the equivalent of a designer saying that backen…

I agree, as a front-end developer that has a design degree I feel I've somehow been insulted twice.

Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#13

Post by ianstormtaylor »

imkevinxu wrote: post #3

A much better guide to working with designers by Julie Zhuo, a Facebook PM https://medium.com/the-year-of-the-looking-glass/6c975dede14...

Wow, thank you so much for that link. Just read five of Julie's articles and they are really great reads. Highly recommended for designers at mid-stage startups (and really everyone).

Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#14

Post by seivan »

crazygringo wrote: post #6
seivan wrote: post #2

You want to design on iOS? Hire an engineer familiar with UIKit Mac OS? Appkit Web? JS,CSS & HTML. Etc etc. Basically only hire designers that can write their design. A .PSD isn't much value to you. Then again I'm getting more annoyed by so called UX experts or PSD-designers as time goes. Now, I am sure Brett who I'm quoting doesn't agree with me, but: "…these brilliant designers could not make real things. They coul…

Please. This attitude really needs to stop -- it's insulting to designers, because it implies their design skills aren't enough, and it's insulting to programmers, because it implies programming is so trivial that a designer should just be able to pick it up. Show some respect. If you think a PSD isn't of much value, you don't have a clue as to what design even is. It's the equivalent of a designer saying that backen…

I never said programming was easy. I don't expect nor would want all software engineers to be good at design either. That be ing said, are you building front-facing products (say iOS or a front-end for a web application) you'd be better off with a software engineer who can design. Than a designer that can do photoshop mockups. Not everyone on that product team should know how to design out of the engineers.

But I am saying that designer that can't code their front-end, wether thats web or mobile, is kinda weird for 2014?

I never said design was unnecessary, I said a designer who' a single skill queen (in my world) is unnecessary. No one is advocating that design lack importance, but unless you can code the interface you design, you really don't add much value. Like an MBA with the next social media idea that will acquire a billion users in a week because it's such an amazing idea.

Implementation is the only thing that matters and ironically design is subjective enough for that.

Not to be confused with an illustrator - drawing is fuckhard.

Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#15

Post by seivan »

luxstyle wrote: post #5
seivan wrote: post #2

You want to design on iOS? Hire an engineer familiar with UIKit Mac OS? Appkit Web? JS,CSS & HTML. Etc etc. Basically only hire designers that can write their design. A .PSD isn't much value to you. Then again I'm getting more annoyed by so called UX experts or PSD-designers as time goes. Now, I am sure Brett who I'm quoting doesn't agree with me, but: "…these brilliant designers could not make real things. They coul…

Why settle for a mediocre designer just because they also know how to write code. The same argument can be said for hiring a programmer. "Only hire programmers that are good at product and design who can deliver a product that not only works well but looks well." This I'm sure would be ridiculed if I said it seriously. Programming and design are very different fields and while you can find some people that are solid…

This sorta feels like a defeatist attitude. "Oh it requires a different sort of a brain" and etc. Not sure I agree nor even would want to agree. It's also insulting to those who do both. I'm trying to do both (still learning)

Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#16

Post by gjenkin »

imkevinxu wrote: post #3

A much better guide to working with designers by Julie Zhuo, a Facebook PM https://medium.com/the-year-of-the-looking-glass/6c975dede14...

I was writing for a slightly different audience but yes agree that Julie is a much better writer than me. :)

Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#17

Post by raverbashing »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #9
raverbashing wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" An author can write a book. A musician can compose a song, a [sic] animator can compose a short, a painter can compose a painting." Sure, an author can write a book. But to expect him to layout it is too much no? No author is expected to go learn InDesign. A musician can compose a song and play some instrument, of course. But you can't expect him to know all instruments. Of course, she will usually compose for thei…

"A musician can compose a song and play some instrument, of course. But you can't expect him to know all instruments. Of course, she will usually compose for their most familiar instrument but not necessarily, see movie composers for example." I disagree with your point. I'm a part-time musician and my wife programs (selects music for) several classical ensembles. It's very important that composers and arrangers unde…

Well, this is an interesting topic

"To do the work, you have to understand, for instance, the ranges of instruments you compose for, as well as the difficulties imposed by the mechanics of the instrument."

True, but knowing the range is "trivial". Knowing the difficulties is much more relevant in the case of an educational program as you mention.

For example, playing C and the C one octave above on a piano is trivial, on a recorder, it's on a distinct educational level.

Sure, you can complain about print designers doing web design and I would agree, but one thing is knowing the limitations and quirks of the medium, another is knowing how to use it (sure, one comes with the other, but it's not "mandatory" that they learn that way)

" self-taught singer-songwriters whose only instrument is guitar and who can play barely enough keyboard to input a score into finale are often confirmed."

Yeah, I don't trust guitar players ;) And I didn't know Finale was still popular.

Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#18

Post by mmariani »

crazygringo wrote: post #6
seivan wrote: post #2

You want to design on iOS? Hire an engineer familiar with UIKit Mac OS? Appkit Web? JS,CSS & HTML. Etc etc. Basically only hire designers that can write their design. A .PSD isn't much value to you. Then again I'm getting more annoyed by so called UX experts or PSD-designers as time goes. Now, I am sure Brett who I'm quoting doesn't agree with me, but: "…these brilliant designers could not make real things. They coul…

Please. This attitude really needs to stop -- it's insulting to designers, because it implies their design skills aren't enough, and it's insulting to programmers, because it implies programming is so trivial that a designer should just be able to pick it up. Show some respect. If you think a PSD isn't of much value, you don't have a clue as to what design even is. It's the equivalent of a designer saying that backen…

What a load of crap. I'm a programmer, and designer. These are just skill sets that anyone with half of a good brain can learn. As usual, having a little talent helps too.

Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#19

Post by bennyg »

seivan wrote: post #14
crazygringo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. This attitude really needs to stop -- it's insulting to designers, because it implies their design skills aren't enough, and it's insulting to programmers, because it implies programming is so trivial that a designer should just be able to pick it up. Show some respect. If you think a PSD isn't of much value, you don't have a clue as to what design even is. It's the equivalent of a designer saying that backen…

I never said programming was easy. I don't expect nor would want all software engineers to be good at design either. That be ing said, are you building front-facing products (say iOS or a front-end for a web application) you'd be better off with a software engineer who can design. Than a designer that can do photoshop mockups. Not everyone on that product team should know how to design out of the engineers. But I am…

Do you also think that a mobile app programmer who can't design is a waste? They are also a one-skill queen, unable to implement and create a product.

Re: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Working With Designers

#20

Post by seivan »

bennyg wrote: post #19
seivan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said programming was easy. I don't expect nor would want all software engineers to be good at design either. That be ing said, are you building front-facing products (say iOS or a front-end for a web application) you'd be better off with a software engineer who can design. Than a designer that can do photoshop mockups. Not everyone on that product team should know how to design out of the engineers. But I am…

Do you also think that a mobile app programmer who can't design is a waste? They are also a one-skill queen, unable to implement and create a product .

No, because software is inherently hard.
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