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Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

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11–20 of 59 posts

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#11

There was an interesting article recently about teens and social networking, and insight of the article was that teens want to socialize IRL, but there is nowhere for them to go without parental supervision. I would argue that this approximately true for adults, American cities don't have pedestrian-only town squares, the public transit is abysmal (because long ago they ripped out all the streetcars, which led to the…

Could you link the article? I spent most of my youth "ruled" under extremely restrictive parents in a suburb that offered nowhere to go without a car, that my parents would never let me use. I was very lonely as a kid and even after I got to college, it took me a while to develop the social skills I needed to make myself happy. I ended up developing a strong hatred for the suburbs in my youth and have embraced the ur…

My suburb used to have an arcade/bowling alley, but my parents didn't want me to go there (I did anyway), but then even that closed down. I guess I was one of the lucky ones.

Consider the following, most parents are driving their children to sports, therefore the children are not playing in the neighborhood, therefore if you are a child and not in sports there is no one to socialize with since all your peers are "at hockey" or whatever.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#12
Related but an off-shoot question, people who are "settled down," in your late 20's/30's/40's/50's/60's, have families and various obligations, how do you deal with loneliness?

As someone who is on the precipice of turning 30 (27 currently), speaking strictly for myself - I've found that loneliness for me and my older peers is different from the angst of adolescence a la Holden. Tbh, younger people tend to think in more black and white terms and very ambitious but most haven't gone through the "test" of one's vulnerability and limitation. Unfortunately, we also live in a marketing society that sells products and dreams on the Fear of Missing Out (FOMO) that exploit the impressionable young people (e.g., the "MTV" high school memories with the "Coke" concert experience with friends; the "Ivy League" class room experience, the "Liberal Arts" self-exploration, the "Sexy-Times" with la-femme-de-Zooey Deschanel and "Peter Thiel/Steve Jobs entrepreneur" iconoclasm).

Whereas I was a jack-ass when I was 21, thinking I was special and therefore deserved and expected external tokens of accomplishments at every stage in my life (I was crestfallen at age 21 after being rejected by YC because I couldn't post a smug post on FB to snub all of my classmates and friends; and most importantly, have that as a validation to my insecure self-worth; a loneliness stemming out of FOMO). My loneliness nowadays is more centered around the splintering of between mine and my friends and acquaintances' goals and vision.

Some of my friends are still going at it with early twenties vision of grad school, startups and traveling, albeit with some bruises and splints. Some of my friends have fully "embraced" adulthood, complete with jumbo mortgage loans and X month into pregnancy and parenting books and diapers. Friendships/liasons have changed from one-on-one interaction to couples or single "dating" another couple or single. But most alarmingly, how much less I care and am affected by my peers' ideas and vision because how much I've fully embraced my own vulnerabilities/personality and focused fully to vest on my own ideas.

People who have past their 20's, how do you deal with loneliness? Do you focus on your family or really close friends after twenties, or do you focus on pursuing your own ideas with a community of likely-minded people, or do you come up with some kind of philosophical reconciliation?

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#13
post #7

Interesting article, but I can't help feeling that for the author the feeling of loneliness is a symptom of something underlying. Which makes the loneliness itself much less interesting. The reason I say this is, because it affects reaction and treatment. If someone complains of persistent leg pain, you don't delve too deeply into the nature of the pain and whether society is sufficiently kind to leg-pain-sufferers,…

There is no 'right way round' for so-called symptoms or so-called 'underlying' conditions, because these things are subject to feedback. Positioning in social contexts affects brain chemistry, brain chemistry affects behavior, behavior affects positioning in social contexts. To name only a few of the causal lines that can be drawn. As a long time sufferer of all of these things, I've found the illness model of depression to be very nearly useless, sometimes harmful, except during short-lived acute manifestations. I'm aware that the mileage of others varies.

Comparing the brain to other parts of the body doesn't work. It's like trying to reason about a CPU by studying a USB port. With other organs, it's relatively easy to understand function and dysfunction. With the brain, it's not as clear cut what constitutes normal functioning. Is it normal to be happy or content in a world where, objectively, there is a lot to feel hopeless about? What if this brain has been in solitary confinement for eight months? Do we still expect it to be functioning normally, or look to the chemistry of the brain to fix the situation? A human is embedded in a society and culture, and it's very hard to treat the organ that is so profoundly affected by that embedding in isolation. Not that it is never appropriate to treat it that way, but I do think the current prevailing attitude does that too much.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#14
post #9

This advice is far better than it sounds: > “Find better people,” he replied. I began feeling very much like the author describes in my late high school years. I was nothing like the unpopular guy stereotype though. Yes, between my passion for programming and my introversion I was not exactly a lollypop, but I wasn't the nerd that everyone hated. I was a drummer trying to start a band, occasionally rebellious towards…

A whole lot of what you said resonates with my experience. The whole workplace being the place where you find genuinely honest "friends" seems to be a paradox. But its really true. Socializing on the other hand is a hit and miss thing. Its like random sampling. You may get a bunch of honest friends but a whole lot of the people at gatherings are busy doing their own piece in the grander social dance. On a sidenote, social networks as they exist are flawed. But there are certain micro-interactions out of the realm of a regular social network that sometimes have more meaning. Take for example your comment. Striking the same chord at the least makes me feel its not just me :) I have been lucky enough to have interacted virtually with a bunch of people online (irc,quora, HN) which has turned into fruitful friendships. There is no pressure of constant communication but whenever we interact, it starts from the point where we left last time. Its almost like a breath of fresh air. So i wouldn't outrightly saw virtual interactions are futile. BTW that SMS bit is so true. you hit a nerve there :)

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#15

There was an interesting article recently about teens and social networking, and insight of the article was that teens want to socialize IRL, but there is nowhere for them to go without parental supervision. I would argue that this approximately true for adults, American cities don't have pedestrian-only town squares, the public transit is abysmal (because long ago they ripped out all the streetcars, which led to the…

I would expand your hypothesis: the goal of business is to take away all of our abilities to take care of ourselves--whether it's socialization, food, shelter, or anything else--so that they can sell those things back to us.

Our culture, increasingly dictated by commercial interests, is taking this strategy to the extreme. The result is a world which appears humane to the wealthy.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#16
post #13
post #7

Interesting article, but I can't help feeling that for the author the feeling of loneliness is a symptom of something underlying. Which makes the loneliness itself much less interesting. The reason I say this is, because it affects reaction and treatment. If someone complains of persistent leg pain, you don't delve too deeply into the nature of the pain and whether society is sufficiently kind to leg-pain-sufferers,…

There is no 'right way round' for so-called symptoms or so-called 'underlying' conditions, because these things are subject to feedback. Positioning in social contexts affects brain chemistry, brain chemistry affects behavior, behavior affects positioning in social contexts. To name only a few of the causal lines that can be drawn. As a long time sufferer of all of these things, I've found the illness model of depres…

Thank you for the very interesting post. You are quite right that these things are tremendously complicated - after all, as you say, even figuring out a 'normal' amount of happiness people should feel leads one immediately down a dozen philosophical and ethical rabbit holes.

I don't have the logical background to explore this space without a great deal of feeling my way in the dark, and I certainly don't have any medical insight into the matter. But I remain quite mystified by the original article - it seems so clear-cut that, although what the author experienced was feelings of loneliness, they weren't caused by solitude or isolation, and therefore debating whether the modern world causes solitude and isolation is thoroughly beside the point.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#18

There was an interesting article recently about teens and social networking, and insight of the article was that teens want to socialize IRL, but there is nowhere for them to go without parental supervision. I would argue that this approximately true for adults, American cities don't have pedestrian-only town squares, the public transit is abysmal (because long ago they ripped out all the streetcars, which led to the…

Also worth a read is 'A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction' if you're interested in an architectural look at how humans might live together better.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#19

There was an interesting article recently about teens and social networking, and insight of the article was that teens want to socialize IRL, but there is nowhere for them to go without parental supervision. I would argue that this approximately true for adults, American cities don't have pedestrian-only town squares, the public transit is abysmal (because long ago they ripped out all the streetcars, which led to the…

I would also argue that the spread and popularity of "social" networking, and the cliquey nature of American undergraduates (which is the stage in their late teens) also heavily contributes to this.

Over-supervision by parents leads to college students around in a coffee shop working, hooked to their iDevices, staring into their Macbooks while they "like" the last 20 items their "friends" posted on Facebook. They go to the supermarket for most of their needs, but are almost surprised if anyone actually talks to them. They don't get to interact with basically anyone outside of their tiny little group of (real) friends [although they have tons of Facebook ones that provide limited mental satisfaction], and thus are often awkward and lonely when they move away for work.

The only solution I can see for this is for parents to

a) let their children be outside, unsupervised for longer periods of time, and

b) to intensely monitor their online activities at a younger age, and not give them access to smartphones.

This will act as a forcing function for simple social skills, like talking to a stranger without going goggle-eyed.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#20
post #13
post #7

Interesting article, but I can't help feeling that for the author the feeling of loneliness is a symptom of something underlying. Which makes the loneliness itself much less interesting. The reason I say this is, because it affects reaction and treatment. If someone complains of persistent leg pain, you don't delve too deeply into the nature of the pain and whether society is sufficiently kind to leg-pain-sufferers,…

There is no 'right way round' for so-called symptoms or so-called 'underlying' conditions, because these things are subject to feedback. Positioning in social contexts affects brain chemistry, brain chemistry affects behavior, behavior affects positioning in social contexts. To name only a few of the causal lines that can be drawn. As a long time sufferer of all of these things, I've found the illness model of depres…

I am a bit confused about terms. It seems like the discussion is about two related but separate things.

First, there is lonelyness, the social state. This involves not talking to people, not going to meet new people, and not talking about things you find meaningful with those people. This is a set of actions: it is either done by choice (not a problem) or due to some other underlying problem, like a lack of time/effort, depression, fear of social vulnerability, anxiety, or a lack of interpersonal skills. The reason we call these things underlying is because they represent tangible actions that can be taken by the victim of loneliness or someone else to fix the problem

Then there is loneliness the emotion, which might exist separate of the actual lack of socialization described above... existential loneliness perhaps... but most often is cause by the above.

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