How Colleges Flunk Mental Health • Hacker News Board

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#11

Post by Gomer1800 » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 6:38 AM UTC

alexjgriffith wrote: post #7

The purpose of university is to weed out the mentally weak and the incompetent. I don't grasp how they kick this kid out of school but provide lighter course loads to problem students. Should it not be the other way around, help the suicidal and remove the loafers?

"The purpose of university is to weed out the mentally weak and the incompetent." What universe do you live in? The purpose of universities is to educate the populace and to improve all aspects of society by providing an environment for academics to pool their collective talents for research while educating future generations of professionals.

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#12

Post by yummyfajitas » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 6:51 AM UTC

I don't blame colleges for this.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6259...

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2009/12/7/edwards-john-sui...

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/08/24/suicide

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/a_suicid...

Similarly, if the legal system started allowing people with bad eyesight to sue car manufacturers over traffic accidents, I wouldn't blame car manufacturers for refusing to sell to people with glasses.

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#13

Post by habosa » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 7:02 AM UTC

I am a UPenn student and this is a very timely article. Since the start of January we have had 2 student suicides, one drug related death, and another student death that was totally out of nowhere but still in the same time window. It has left a real black cloud over campus, and there is a tension about whether there will be another incident before the end of the year.

I have not personally needed to seek counseling or any sort of mental health care from the University, but I have not been told any encouraging stories about what I'd get if I needed it. I am in no way saying that the school takes any of the blame for the recent tragedies, but I am worried there is not enough done to prevent the next one.

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#14

Post by bkoa » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 7:45 AM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #12

I don't blame colleges for this. http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6259... http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2009/12/7/edwards-john-sui... http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/08/24/suicide http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/a_suicid... Similarly, if the legal system started allowing people with bad eyesight to sue car manufacturers over traffic accidents, I wouldn't blame ca…

Did you read those articles? The first one is bringing the suit alleging that the college didn't investigate a rape allegation, and the second one alleges the medical system failed by prescribing a dangerous combination of medicines. The third was settled for a very small amount, only slightly more than a year of tuition at private schools. And the last one was fairly absurd and unreasonable and was almost certainly dismissed. So I don't think your argument or analogy really works to support your argument that colleges have to fear losing millions in lawsuits to parents of unstable kids.

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#15

Post by yummyfajitas » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 8:19 AM UTC

bkoa wrote: post #14

yummyfajitas wrote: post #12

I don't blame colleges for this. http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6259... http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2009/12/7/edwards-john-sui... http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/08/24/suicide http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/a_suicid... Similarly, if the legal system started allowing people with bad eyesight to sue car manufacturers over traffic accidents, I wouldn't blame ca…

Did you read those articles? The first one is bringing the suit alleging that the college didn't investigate a rape allegation, and the second one alleges the medical system failed by prescribing a dangerous combination of medicines. The third was settled for a very small amount, only slightly more than a year of tuition at private schools. And the last one was fairly absurd and unreasonable and was almost certainly…

The first one is a lawsuit against a college for referring a crime victim to the police. That's exactly the reason I'd avoid high-risk students - colleges are already being sued for not doing the job of other industries (police work, medical system, etc). Why bring on a student at high risk of needing special help from other industries?

The risk is not just losing millions, but also bad publicity and legal costs. Big organizations are extremely risk averse.

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#16

Post by saraid216 » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 9:21 AM UTC

alexjgriffith wrote: post #7

The purpose of university is to weed out the mentally weak and the incompetent. I don't grasp how they kick this kid out of school but provide lighter course loads to problem students. Should it not be the other way around, help the suicidal and remove the loafers?

Huh. Good luck with your masters, then. Sounds like you'll need it.

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#17

Post by rjzzleep » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 9:47 AM UTC

joesmo wrote: post #3

I think it's obvious from these stories that students are punished for revealing their mental health problems. Whether this is for liability reasons, image reasons, or something else on behalf of the colleges is really irrelevant. The reality is that this is how our society treats those who are sick. In the wider society, most of these students would likely be incarcerated or committed and deprived of basic rights. I…

people are almost always punished for mental problems. once you're inside the system i don't think you can ever get out. i would never recommend anyone voluntarily put themselves into that position.

what's that you say what about your depression? why don't we start looking for the causes of societies mental health problems, instead of paying for remedies

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#18

Post by peterhunt » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 10:32 AM UTC

I saw this first hand my senior year of college: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-03-16-IHE...

There are of course many factors in play here. However one thing I noticed in my time there was that academic advising (which classes to take, how to satisfy requirements and achieve your goals) was exceedingly bad. I've heard similar complaints from students at similar schools (big pressure-cooker universities). When students started throwing themselves off of bridges, the university put up nets, fences, and security guards but didn't re-examine its academic advising.

Many of my friends had to stay an extra year or dropped out which I think could have been avoided with better advising. In fact, I had to change my undergraduate major due to my advisor, my parents and I misunderstanding the major requirements.

Many (all?) institutions have professors serving as advisors to the students. I don't actually think that professors serve as great advocates for students since the goals and priorities of students and of professors are not always aligned. Instead, it'd be great to see some non-faculty advisors who specialize in advocating for the student and understanding all of the fine print.

I'm not sure if academic advising is the biggest problem, but I do think it is a factor and is directly actionable.

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#19

Post by marvin » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 10:55 AM UTC

Both this story and the one a few weeks ago about similar problems at Yale, just stun me by showing how these universities do everything absolutely wrong to create an environment where people with mild mental health issues can get better and at the same time get useful work done. What is needed is acceptance, correct treatment, flexibility in workload, support from friends and administration.

Mental health is not an "us and them" issue. A remarkably high percentage of the population suffers from mild anxiety or depression at one point or other. And even more serious conditions are very rarely a threat to anyone but the patient. I'm just glad I don't have to go to any of the schools mentioned in this story.

Re: How Colleges Flunk Mental Health

#20

Post by beachstartup » Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 11:07 AM UTC

bkoa wrote: post #14

yummyfajitas wrote: post #12

I don't blame colleges for this. http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6259... http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2009/12/7/edwards-john-sui... http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/08/24/suicide http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/a_suicid... Similarly, if the legal system started allowing people with bad eyesight to sue car manufacturers over traffic accidents, I wouldn't blame ca…

Did you read those articles? The first one is bringing the suit alleging that the college didn't investigate a rape allegation, and the second one alleges the medical system failed by prescribing a dangerous combination of medicines. The third was settled for a very small amount, only slightly more than a year of tuition at private schools. And the last one was fairly absurd and unreasonable and was almost certainly…

i'm not really directly responding to you, but this thing about schools investigating rapes is absolutely fucking ridiculous to me.

if there's been a suspected rape, the police need to be called, not the school. rape is a crime, not something for school politics to get its hands on.

calling the real police deters real actual rape, and false accusations of rape, both of which can ruin lives.