Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Rise of Worse is Better

dreamsongs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 24 posts

Re: The Rise of Worse is Better

#11

Post by brandonbloom »

lkesteloot wrote: post #2

JavaScript is classic worse-is-better.

JavaScript is what makes me think that worse isn't better, it's just that worse is easier and immediate. "Worse" things happen sooner and with more frequency, so that means a greater chance that a worse thing will stumble upon what's actually most important.

Turns out that brain dead code distribution was the most important thing. Similarly, brain dead web app deployment is what makes PHP so popular. Seems that when the web was born, "is available in some browsers" was better than "soon to be available in some browsers" and so JavaScript took off like a rocket. JavaScript doesn't get code distribution anywhere close to "the right thing", but it does it and it's ubiquitous, which is what's important if you want to reach people. After that, it's just a virtuous/vicious cycle.

Re: The Rise of Worse is Better

#13

Post by dtp »

Avitas wrote: post #3

The use of the word 'worse' is misleading. The article wanders. I do not feel it is worthwhile.

The word "worse" might be worse than some other term Gabriel could have picked. But this article (written in 1989) was really pretty influential at the time, and cemented the phrase "worse is better" in a lot of peoples' minds.

The article even has its own Wikipedia page. Apart from whatever merits it might or might not have in itself, I think it's a worthwhile read because it made an impression on a lot of people back in 1989. It's one of the first explicit attempts to discuss the "Unix philosophy."

Re: The Rise of Worse is Better

#14

Post by gruseom »

Avitas wrote: post #3

The use of the word 'worse' is misleading. The article wanders. I do not feel it is worthwhile.

I've never been able to make sense of the article either, and I've tried many times. I think it boils down to its title, which is just the right mix of vague and catchy to be optimal for getting repeated. The article itself is merely the title's host organism.

Re: The Rise of Worse is Better

#15

Post by andrewflnr »

gruseom wrote: post #14
Avitas wrote: post #3

The use of the word 'worse' is misleading. The article wanders. I do not feel it is worthwhile.

I've never been able to make sense of the article either, and I've tried many times. I think it boils down to its title, which is just the right mix of vague and catchy to be optimal for getting repeated. The article itself is merely the title's host organism.

  The  itself is merely the title's host organism.
That describes so many things.

Re: The Rise of Worse is Better

#16

Post by alayne »

lispm wrote: post #7

No, worse is better is worse. http://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf

For anyone who isn't aware, this essay was also written by Richard P. Gabriel under a pseudonym as a rebuttal to his earlier worse is better paper.

Re: The Rise of Worse is Better

#18

Post by andrewflnr »

brandonbloom wrote: post #11
lkesteloot wrote: post #2

JavaScript is classic worse-is-better.

JavaScript is what makes me think that worse isn't better, it's just that worse is easier and immediate. "Worse" things happen sooner and with more frequency, so that means a greater chance that a worse thing will stumble upon what's actually most important. Turns out that brain dead code distribution was the most important thing. Similarly, brain dead web app deployment is what makes PHP so popular. Seems that when…

I think the point of "worse is better" is that "easier and immediate" is better.

Re: The Rise of Worse is Better

#19

Post by andrewflnr »

It's interesting that in the development of a single project, in the prototyping phase it really is better to just get something done, even if it's crappy. But as you go on, you want to pay off the technical debt, clean things up, and finish with a polished product. Which philosophy is better is a function of what phase of the project you're at.

It's possible, and I'm hoping it's true, that "worse is better" is a property of the current phase of growth of the computer industry, not a general principle of software. I'm hoping we can reach the finished product stage in my lifetime.

Re: The Rise of Worse is Better

#20

Post by parallelist »

alayne wrote: post #16
lispm wrote: post #7

No, worse is better is worse. http://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf

For anyone who isn't aware, this essay was also written by Richard P. Gabriel under a pseudonym as a rebuttal to his earlier worse is better paper.

On http://www.dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBetter.html Gabriel talks about the difficulty he had in deciding whether worse really is better and that he wrote various documents taking opposing positions
Post reply on HN